From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Mon Nov 3 14:47:10 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Monday, November 3 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2895 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:32:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about fuel prices... Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! Filled up for $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At these prices I can afford to eat out again! ;) Jim - --- On Sat, 11/1/08, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: [db] fuel costs and projects > To: > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 3:59 PM > - with the dropping of gas below $2.50 my wife is going to > start driving our WJ > again... considering that the K1500 Blazer with the 6.5L TD > gets about the same > mpg as the WJ on the freeway, if we take a road trip > we'll take the WJ... The > Blazer is nice and all that, but it's NOT a Jeep... > like the tailgate setup on > it, and the drivetrain is ok... but it's still a > chevy... ;) > > - biodiesel costs have also gone up because of chemical > costs... :( > - hard to keep wvo sources, and the supply is often > irregular... lots of work... > - I'll probably start driving my 300D again... fix up > Superdawg, then sell the Blazer > - my carport is almost done... > - I'm thinking I'll bring SuperDawg home over > Thanksgiving weekend! :) > - so, my thought is that I'll put a Mercedes Turbo > Diesel (2.5 or 3.0 with hydraulic > lifters - 86 and up) into my J10 and set it up with a WVO > tank, use the barrel lift > on it... put the WJ seats in it... and sell the K1500 > Blazer once it's running. > > - We'll probably keep the Benz, the WJ and the J10. > Would also sell the hydraulic dump trailer > because I could haul topsoil/gravel and barkdust in the > J10... If the J10 works out to > be economical we might even part with the 300D, but > that's unlikely, it's just too nice of a car. > > - heading out to bend nails, just got back from home > depot... > > - one other option that is kicking around in my head and > that is to build up a Diesel XJ, but > then it would have to haul the trailer, not sure how well > that would work... The WJ only > weighs 3,900lbs... the J10 solves the problems of utility > and is still my favorite FSJ... > > later, > john > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > SAVE power: use LINUX: > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ > http://freegift.com > http://wagoneers.com/fotos - john's fotos - have > camera, will travel > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:37:39 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Our lone Wal Mart and major grocery store (HEB) in Taylor, Texas have been in a fuel price pissing match for over two months now, and I'm loving it. Regular unleaded was $1.839 a gallon this morning, with all other grades and diesel at normal intervals above that base price. Alec On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: > Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about fuel prices... > > Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! Filled up for > $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At these prices I > can afford to eat out again! > > ;) > > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 08:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Well, I'm old enough to remember my father getting VERY upset if the price of a gallon of gas went over $.269!!! When I got my license and started paying for my own gas I think it was somewhere around $.509. But I'm not expecting anything like that... ;) Jim > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Alec Cordova > wrote: > > > From: Alec Cordova > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 10:37 AM > > Our lone Wal Mart and major grocery store (HEB) in > Taylor, > > Texas have > > been in a fuel price pissing match for over two months > now, > > and I'm > > loving it. > > Regular unleaded was $1.839 a gallon this morning, > with all > > other > > grades and diesel at normal intervals above that base > > price. > > > > Alec > > > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Jim Hoffman > > wrote: > > > Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about > fuel > > prices... > > > > > > Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! > > > Filled up for > > > $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At > these > > prices I > > > can afford to eat out again! > > > > > > ;) > > > > > > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 09:17:20 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects wow. our biodiesel costs have jumped to $1.75 because of chemical price increases... I'm getting tired of sloshing wvo around... if fuel prices came down that low I might just go back on the pump... ;) guess I need to do the math on this one... right now regular is under $2.49, Diesel is still at $3.19 ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: # Our lone Wal Mart and major grocery store (HEB) in Taylor, Texas have # been in a fuel price pissing match for over two months now, and I'm # loving it. # Regular unleaded was $1.839 a gallon this morning, with all other # grades and diesel at normal intervals above that base price. # # Alec # # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about fuel prices... # > # > Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! Filled up for # > $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At these prices I # > can afford to eat out again! # > # > ;) # > # > Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 09:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects I remember pumping gas at .29/gal in subzero weather. :) I think premium was .32... trying to remember what year it was... I think this was around 1972... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Well, I'm old enough to remember my father getting VERY # upset if the # price of a gallon of gas went over $.269!!! # # When I got my license and started paying for my own gas I # think it # was somewhere around $.509. # # But I'm not expecting anything like that... # # ;) # # Jim # # > --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Alec Cordova # > wrote: # > # > > From: Alec Cordova # > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects # > > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 10:37 AM # > > Our lone Wal Mart and major grocery store (HEB) in # > Taylor, # > > Texas have # > > been in a fuel price pissing match for over two months # > now, # > > and I'm # > > loving it. # > > Regular unleaded was $1.839 a gallon this morning, # > with all # > > other # > > grades and diesel at normal intervals above that base # > > price. # > > # > > Alec # > > # > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Jim Hoffman # > > wrote: # > > > Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about # > fuel # > > prices... # > > > # > > > Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! # > # > > Filled up for # > > > $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At # > these # > > prices I # > > > can afford to eat out again! # > > > # > > > ;) # > > > # > > > Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 11:23:18 -0600 From: "Alec Cordova" Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects You should factor more into that reevaluation than just materials and labor costs. There is some value in not using conventional petroleum diesel. The question is, just how much is that worth to you? Will you only use veggie oil or biodiesel if it is cheaper than conventional? The choice is certainly a lot easier if it also saves one money. I honestly don't know what my threshold would be, but I'm currently diesel-less and don't need to decide. ;-) Alec On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, john wrote: > wow. > > our biodiesel costs have jumped to $1.75 because of chemical price increases... > > I'm getting tired of sloshing wvo around... if fuel prices came down that low > I might just go back on the pump... ;) guess I need to do the math on this one... > > right now regular is under $2.49, Diesel is still at $3.19 > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: > > # Our lone Wal Mart and major grocery store (HEB) in Taylor, Texas have > # been in a fuel price pissing match for over two months now, and I'm > # loving it. > # Regular unleaded was $1.839 a gallon this morning, with all other > # grades and diesel at normal intervals above that base price. > # > # Alec > # > # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > Yeah, kept forgetting to send an update about fuel prices... > # > > # > Diesel dropped below three bucks over a week ago! Filled up for > # > $2.929 yesterday. Regular is around $3.359. At these prices I > # > can afford to eat out again! > # > > # > ;) > # > > # > Jim > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 10:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: # You should factor more into that reevaluation than just materials and # labor costs. # There is some value in not using conventional petroleum diesel. The # question is, just how much is that worth to you? Will you only use # veggie oil or biodiesel if it is cheaper than conventional? # The choice is certainly a lot easier if it also saves one money. # I honestly don't know what my threshold would be, but I'm currently # diesel-less and don't need to decide. ;-) # Alec # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, john wrote: # > our biodiesel costs have jumped to $1.75 because of chemical price increases... # > I'm getting tired of sloshing wvo around... if fuel prices came down that low # > I might just go back on the pump... ;) guess I need to do the math on this one... # > right now regular is under $2.49, Diesel is still at $3.19 ############################################################################## Yep, running biodiesel has additional costs on the vehicle as well... ...one must replace seals and rubber lines with Viton. if you don't you'll have leaks and possible stalling issues... this was a big issue on my 6.2L Grand Wagoneer... then you have to deal with air in the system for a while... :( If you're going to go BioDiesel, you need to build it right first or face frustration... of course how many know about these issues before they start? :) Then there is the time running around chasing waste veggie oil with folks that don't speak english... korean or spanish typically... the folks that speak english natively prove to be the most unreliable as sources... they will just not call or give the oil to someone else... or they change management and quit giving it away or close down... lost good sources that way... Even if you're willing to pay for it there is always the issue that they may sign up with a commercial outfit for regular pickups and less hassles. I always try to provide prompt service, but there are times when I'm out of town and have to send a friend or my son... if I don't respond to their call I risk losing the oil... Then there is the time spent moving it about to get it processed... since I've actually burned chicken noodle soup, I'm not going to do my own processing of biodiesel... and filtering wvo is a messy proposition and involves a lot of effort to make it work in the vehicle... have found that the seals at a minimum need to be replaced... hoses seem to be ok... but then there is another problem, one can't blend wvo with biodiesel... only Diesel... so one needs a separate tank for straight WVO, that has to be heated... so one must decide if they're going to run BioDiesel or WVO/blended Diesel... you can't do both in the same tank. Building a second heated tank and fuel solenoid setup isn't that bad... so far I've found tanks for less than $200, the solenoid is hovering around $75, the heaters are the variable at this point... do I use Jason's design and risk springing a leak... do I buy an electrical heater and pump? and then where do I mount the tank? Inside? that could be messy... outside, then I have to deal with water contamination... and mounting... so I'm looking at about $500 in parts and at least a full day or weekend fabricating and installing, while I love doing stuff like this I need to step back and do a flippin' reality check... how much pump Diesel could I buy for $500? And figuring that I plan on replacing the Blazer with a Jeep at my earliest opportunity... should I even bother? :) ...and of course I have to deal with the issue of filtering the WVO... preferrably before putting it in the vehicle... of course I will add filters to both tanks in addition to the main stock filters... I've clogged filters before running wvo and used oil... not fun... it's also embarrassing and can be expensive if you're out on the road... Filtering WVO is just not a lot of fun... you can't ever get the buckets clean, and any spillage turns into the nastiest, slimiest, goo imaginable in our climate... You learn to walk very carefully so your legs remain under you... and you watch where you walk afterwards... going in the house wearing those shows may result in a death sentence, or a least a very serious scolding and additional labor. :) Rather than building a separate tank I could just go back to filtering my WVO and blending about 25 to 30%... need to do the math... (will do that later). So, why do we do it? I mean why do reasonably successful reasonably paid folks do the bioDiesel or WVO thing? If you figure our time it doesn't make sense... at all. sense or cents. ;) But there is something rewarding about being able to fill up your tank in your own driveway, or a rest stop or where ever... and of course there is the "green" aspect of using a waste product that burns cleaner too. And the smell of the exhaust is great. And it's about independence... not being dependent on a potentially unreliable and expensive source is also quite pleasing... if it weren't for the fact that we were dependent on the chemicals that appear to have the same issues as pump products in costs... :( So, do I build my J10 with an auxillary tank and a Diesel? Need to think about this... I'm not eager to go with a gas engine. It would be a lot easier, but I prefer Diesel. If I were going to go with a gas Jeep I'd prefer an XJ or a WJ... but there will always be a part of me that will want to convert it to a Diesel... I've been so afflicted by the Diesel bug since 1983. :) So, the question is... WVO or BioDiesel? stay tuned... firing up Excel... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:46:32 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [db] fuel costs and projects Regular dino-diesel just hit $3.059 on today's fillup. If the trend keeps up, pretty soon Bio will not be competitive, but then other factors could kick in, which I prefer not to mention as this is a family oriented program, and which may drive up dino everything like crazy. john wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Alec Cordova wrote: > # You should factor more into that reevaluation than just materials and > # labor costs. > # There is some value in not using conventional petroleum diesel. The > # question is, just how much is that worth to you? Will you only use > # veggie oil or biodiesel if it is cheaper than conventional? > # The choice is certainly a lot easier if it also saves one money. > # I honestly don't know what my threshold would be, but I'm currently > # diesel-less and don't need to decide. ;-) > # Alec > # On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, john wrote: > # > our biodiesel costs have jumped to $1.75 because of chemical price increases... > # > I'm getting tired of sloshing wvo around... if fuel prices came down that low > # > I might just go back on the pump... ;) guess I need to do the math on this one... > # > right now regular is under $2.49, Diesel is still at $3.19 > ############################################################################## > > Yep, running biodiesel has additional costs on the vehicle as well... > ...one must replace seals and rubber lines with Viton. if you don't > you'll have leaks and possible stalling issues... this was a big issue > on my 6.2L Grand Wagoneer... then you have to deal with air in the system > for a while... :( If you're going to go BioDiesel, you need to build it > right first or face frustration... of course how many know about these issues > before they start? :) > > Then there is the time running around chasing waste veggie oil with folks that > don't speak english... korean or spanish typically... the folks that > speak english natively prove to be the most unreliable as sources... they > will just not call or give the oil to someone else... or they change management > and quit giving it away or close down... lost good sources that way... > > Even if you're willing to pay for it there is always the issue that they may > sign up with a commercial outfit for regular pickups and less hassles. I > always try to provide prompt service, but there are times when I'm out of > town and have to send a friend or my son... if I don't respond to their > call I risk losing the oil... > > Then there is the time spent moving it about to get it processed... since > I've actually burned chicken noodle soup, I'm not going to do my own processing > of biodiesel... and filtering wvo is a messy proposition and involves a lot > of effort to make it work in the vehicle... have found that the seals at a > minimum need to be replaced... hoses seem to be ok... but then there is > another problem, one can't blend wvo with biodiesel... only Diesel... so > one needs a separate tank for straight WVO, that has to be heated... so > one must decide if they're going to run BioDiesel or WVO/blended Diesel... > you can't do both in the same tank. > > Building a second heated tank and fuel solenoid setup isn't that bad... so far > I've found tanks for less than $200, the solenoid is hovering around $75, the > heaters are the variable at this point... do I use Jason's design and risk > springing a leak... do I buy an electrical heater and pump? and then where > do I mount the tank? Inside? that could be messy... outside, then I have > to deal with water contamination... and mounting... so I'm looking at about > $500 in parts and at least a full day or weekend fabricating and installing, > while I love doing stuff like this I need to step back and do a flippin' reality > check... how much pump Diesel could I buy for $500? And figuring that I > plan on replacing the Blazer with a Jeep at my earliest opportunity... should > I even bother? :) > > ...and of course I have to deal with the issue of filtering the WVO... preferrably > before putting it in the vehicle... of course I will add filters to both tanks > in addition to the main stock filters... I've clogged filters before running > wvo and used oil... not fun... it's also embarrassing and can be expensive if > you're out on the road... > > Filtering WVO is just not a lot of fun... you can't ever get the buckets clean, > and any spillage turns into the nastiest, slimiest, goo imaginable in our climate... > You learn to walk very carefully so your legs remain under you... and you watch > where you walk afterwards... going in the house wearing those shows may result > in a death sentence, or a least a very serious scolding and additional labor. :) > > Rather than building a separate tank I could just go back to filtering my WVO > and blending about 25 to 30%... need to do the math... (will do that later). > > So, why do we do it? I mean why do reasonably successful reasonably paid folks > do the bioDiesel or WVO thing? If you figure our time it doesn't make sense... at > all. sense or cents. ;) But there is something rewarding about being able to > fill up your tank in your own driveway, or a rest stop or where ever... and of > course there is the "green" aspect of using a waste product that burns cleaner > too. And the smell of the exhaust is great. And it's about independence... not > being dependent on a potentially unreliable and expensive source is also quite > pleasing... if it weren't for the fact that we were dependent on the chemicals > that appear to have the same issues as pump products in costs... :( > > So, do I build my J10 with an auxillary tank and a Diesel? Need to think about > this... I'm not eager to go with a gas engine. It would be a lot easier, but > I prefer Diesel. If I were going to go with a gas Jeep I'd prefer an XJ or > a WJ... but there will always be a part of me that will want to convert it > to a Diesel... I've been so afflicted by the Diesel bug since 1983. :) > > So, the question is... WVO or BioDiesel? stay tuned... firing up Excel... ;) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > http://wagoneers.com http://gunbanobama.com/ http://freegift.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2895 **********************************