From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Dec 6 13:06:24 2008 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, December 6 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2927 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? Re: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? [db] 3.54 gears/235s equal a sweet spot with the SD33 Re: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? Re: [db] CJ10! Re: [db] CJ10! Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:28:42 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? that appears to be the popcorn question of the weekend... provided of course I can get up there in time... a couple of friends found this cj10a for me, talked to the guy today, he's up at the injector/pump shot I've worked with for over 20 years... they remember my Diesels, and my name... :) that increases my chances of getting it... I doubt that I'd like the ride/comfort of the cj10a, the rear springs on these things look amazing... 8 very, very thick leaves... :) I will be quite satisified with an economical, durable Nissan I-6 Diesel, and have an extra calendar laying about to record the 0 to 60 performance. here's some pix... the white one is the '86 in question: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/CJ-10s-assorted/ my J10 stepside has been my favorite FSJ... my wife hates it, but this is my truck and I really don't care much for that blazer... :) seeing a J10 in light yellow has me considering my original color plan, but the light gray of the WJ is still a very real option.... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-J10s-Nov-2008/ current likely scenario: (subject to change without notice... ;) - - get the '86 CJ10a - - pull the Diesel and 727 out of the cj10a - - part the '80 j10 for the axles and 258/T18 - - drop the 258/T18 into the cj10a - - possibly make a short box j10 trailer - - use the axles from the '80 j10 for superdawg - - get superdawg over the Christmas break - - drop Diesel/727 into Superdawg, add sound proofing, WJ seats and voila. one each slow economical J10 ... - - sell Blazer - - sell Panel (btw, it's for sale for real, mark just bought a collector item today) - - sell parts from j10, perhaps build a lightweight short box trailer... - - sell remains or hopefully running cj10a with a gas engine - - sell trailer end result, '99 wj, '91 300d, '83 Diesel powered J10 stepside mark would have an '86 300d and his '74 javelin let's see, that's 5 vehicles... right now there are 8. hey, this might just work... it makes sense... I should be able to break even on costs or even make a bit that will go towards soundproofing... :) butter for that popcorn? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:18:06 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? I think the CJ has a lot more character in its appearance than the J10, although the J10 looks like it is probably the more practical one. Of course, I've never owned/driven a Jeep, so what do I know? :) (Although when I was back in high school, I *really* wanted the relatively new Cherokee Laredo (XJ)...) - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Fri Dec 05, 2008, John Meister wrote: > that appears to be the popcorn question of the weekend... > > provided of course I can get up there in time... > a couple of friends found this cj10a for me, talked to the guy > today, he's up at the injector/pump shot I've worked with for over 20 years... > they remember my Diesels, and my name... :) that increases my chances > of getting it... > > I doubt that I'd like the ride/comfort of the cj10a, the rear springs on > these things look amazing... 8 very, very thick leaves... :) > > I will be quite satisified with an economical, durable Nissan I-6 Diesel, > and have an extra calendar laying about to record the 0 to 60 performance. > > here's some pix... the white one is the '86 in question: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/CJ-10s-assorted/ > > my J10 stepside has been my favorite FSJ... my wife hates it, but this > is my truck and I really don't care much for that blazer... :) > seeing a J10 in light yellow has me considering my original color plan, > but the light gray of the WJ is still a very real option.... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-J10s-Nov-2008/ > > > current likely scenario: (subject to change without notice... ;) > > - get the '86 CJ10a > - pull the Diesel and 727 out of the cj10a > - part the '80 j10 for the axles and 258/T18 > - drop the 258/T18 into the cj10a > - possibly make a short box j10 trailer > - use the axles from the '80 j10 for superdawg > - get superdawg over the Christmas break > - drop Diesel/727 into Superdawg, add sound proofing, WJ seats and voila. > > one each slow economical J10 ... > > - sell Blazer > - sell Panel (btw, it's for sale for real, mark just bought a collector item today) > - sell parts from j10, perhaps build a lightweight short box trailer... > - sell remains or hopefully running cj10a with a gas engine > - sell trailer > > end result, '99 wj, '91 300d, '83 Diesel powered J10 stepside > mark would have an '86 300d and his '74 javelin > > let's see, that's 5 vehicles... right now there are 8. > hey, this might just work... it makes sense... I should be able to > break even on costs or even make a bit that will go towards soundproofing... :) > > > > butter for that popcorn? :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:34:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] 3.54 gears/235s equal a sweet spot with the SD33 interesting info... thanx jim... so the bellhousing isn't jeep? that the 727 is NOT a Jeep version means it's true "elephant" power and has earned a stay of execution. ;) sweet... this info helped, the specs are for the TD, but should be fairly close... the naturally aspirated unit has 94 hp, the turbo 101... SAE Net Horsepower............101 -at- 3100 RPM SAE Net Torque (lb/ft)........175 -at- 2200 RPM with 3.54's and 235's the probable "sweet spot" is 2200rpm or 53.40 mph... peak horsepower is at 75mph. This looks quite promising... from: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/gears.html MPH =( A x B x pi x 60) / ( C x 12 x 5280 ) 3.54 gears 235's Tires: 28.88 tach mph 600 14.56 700 16.99 800 19.42 900 21.84 1000 24.27 1050 25.48 1100 26.70 1150 27.91 1200 29.12 1250 30.34 1300 31.55 1350 32.77 1400 33.98 1450 35.19 1500 36.41 1550 37.62 1600 38.83 1650 40.05 1700 41.26 1750 42.47 1800 43.69 1850 44.90 1900 46.11 1950 47.33 2000 48.54 2050 49.75 2100 50.97 2150 52.18 2200 53.40 2250 54.61 2300 55.82 2350 57.04 2400 58.25 2450 59.46 2500 60.68 2550 61.89 2600 63.10 2650 64.32 2700 65.53 2750 66.74 2800 67.96 2850 69.17 2900 70.38 2950 71.60 3000 72.81 3050 74.03 3100 75.24 3150 76.45 3200 77.67 3250 78.88 3300 80.09 3350 81.31 3400 82.52 3450 83.73 3500 84.95 3550 86.16 3600 87.37 3650 88.59 3700 89.80 3750 91.01 3800 92.23 john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # The Nissan diesel has a different power band than most. They rev up as high as # 3800 RPM # http://forums.off-road.com/nissan-all/38266-sd33t-specs.html # http://www.motorpowerinc.com/specs/specs.html # # The 727 is supposed to be big block Mopar and not Jeep. If you can find one, # Nissan Maxima/810 diesels ('80 to '84 wagons only AFAIK) had an AW4 (rather # than the usual Jatco) with 4 and 6 cyl diesel. It had a separate controller on # the fender and IIRC the converter was a lower stall speed than the gas ones. # My '84 J10 had 2.72 gears (common for 6 cyl autos post '81) but it now has # 4.10s (and D60 rear!) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > found the hp specs: # > SD33 - 3246cc - Pushrod 6 cylinder, diesel - 94hp # > SD33T - 3246cc - Pushrod 6 cylinder, diesel, turbo - 108hp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:36:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] so... the J10 complex and / or a CJ10? character is a nice way of putting it... I think the cab of my J10 will offer a bit more creature comfort... :) that Nissan SD33 should get 20 to 25 mpg in the J10... they used them in the Patrols as well as the CJ10s. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # I think the CJ has a lot more character in its appearance than # the J10, although the J10 looks like it is probably the more # practical one. # # Of course, I've never owned/driven a Jeep, so what do I know? :) # (Although when I was back in high school, I *really* wanted the # relatively new Cherokee Laredo (XJ)...) # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Fri Dec 05, 2008, John Meister wrote: # > that appears to be the popcorn question of the weekend... # > # > provided of course I can get up there in time... # > a couple of friends found this cj10a for me, talked to the guy # > today, he's up at the injector/pump shot I've worked with for over 20 years... # > they remember my Diesels, and my name... :) that increases my chances # > of getting it... # > # > I doubt that I'd like the ride/comfort of the cj10a, the rear springs on # > these things look amazing... 8 very, very thick leaves... :) # > # > I will be quite satisified with an economical, durable Nissan I-6 Diesel, # > and have an extra calendar laying about to record the 0 to 60 performance. # > # > here's some pix... the white one is the '86 in question: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/CJ-10s-assorted/ # > # > my J10 stepside has been my favorite FSJ... my wife hates it, but this # > is my truck and I really don't care much for that blazer... :) # > seeing a J10 in light yellow has me considering my original color plan, # > but the light gray of the WJ is still a very real option.... # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-J10s-Nov-2008/ # > # > # > current likely scenario: (subject to change without notice... ;) # > # > - get the '86 CJ10a # > - pull the Diesel and 727 out of the cj10a # > - part the '80 j10 for the axles and 258/T18 # > - drop the 258/T18 into the cj10a # > - possibly make a short box j10 trailer # > - use the axles from the '80 j10 for superdawg # > - get superdawg over the Christmas break # > - drop Diesel/727 into Superdawg, add sound proofing, WJ seats and voila. # > # > one each slow economical J10 ... # > # > - sell Blazer # > - sell Panel (btw, it's for sale for real, mark just bought a collector item today) # > - sell parts from j10, perhaps build a lightweight short box trailer... # > - sell remains or hopefully running cj10a with a gas engine # > - sell trailer # > # > end result, '99 wj, '91 300d, '83 Diesel powered J10 stepside # > mark would have an '86 300d and his '74 javelin # > # > let's see, that's 5 vehicles... right now there are 8. # > hey, this might just work... it makes sense... I should be able to # > break even on costs or even make a bit that will go towards soundproofing... :) # > # > # > # > butter for that popcorn? :) # > # > john # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 07:37:45 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] CJ10! Man is that an odd duck looking Jeep! :-) I take it you plan to mate the rear bed from some other model to it or are you planning to fabricate one from scratch? Looks like the army used it to tow something on a base from the configuration. Edward john wrote: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/CJ-10s-assorted/ > > it's the white one... > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # Any pics yet? > # > # --- On Fri, 12/5/08, john wrote: > # > # > From: john > # > Subject: Re: [db] CJ10! > # > To: "Jim Hoffman" > # > Cc: "full size jeep list" , "diesel-benz list" > # > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:41 PM > # > makes perfect sense... thanx. > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't > # > rust, they mold > # > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: > # > http://freegift.com > # > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: > # > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > # > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > > # > # >From the pics I saw the CJ10 had a pickup bed and > # > the CJ10A was the > # > # airport tug. A = Airport??? > # > # > # > # Jim > # > # > # > # --- On Fri, 12/5/08, john > # > wrote: > # > # > # > # > From: john > # > # > Subject: Re: [db] CJ10! > # > # > To: "Jim Hoffman" > # > > # > # > Cc: "full size jeep list" > # > , "diesel-benz list" > # > > # > # > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 4:41 PM > # > # > cj10a, > # > # > what is the difference? > # > # > > # > # > it has the nissan sd33 non-turbo I-6 mated to a > # > 727/np219 > # > # > plated for 2wd only, > # > # > 4.88 rear axle... > # > # > > # > # > john > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > # > don't > # > # > rust, they mold > # > # > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: > # > # > http://freegift.com > # > # > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: > # > # > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > # > # > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > # > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # Is it a CJ10 or a CJ10A... Seems there is a > # > difference. > # > # > # > # > # > # --- On Fri, 12/5/08, john > # > > # > # > wrote: > # > # > # > # > # > # > From: john > # > # > # > Subject: [db] CJ10! > # > # > # > To: "full size jeep list" > # > # > , "diesel-benz > # > list" > # > # > , "David > # > Ashby" > # > # > , "brian > # > ohara" > # > # > , "Terry > # > Halmshaw" > # > # > , > # > ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net > # > # > # > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:53 PM > # > # > # > talked to a guy selling a cj10 up north, > # > meeting > # > # > with him on > # > # > # > Sunday... > # > # > # > > # > # > # > initial plan is to use the Nissan Diesel > # > and 727 in > # > # > # > Superdawg... but > # > # > # > who knows, as crazy as the cj10 looks I may > # > drive > # > # > it... > # > # > # > > # > # > # > The Blazer will go despite the protests of > # > my > # > # > spouse and > # > # > # > son... the > # > # > # > Nissan Diesel in the J10 will be a > # > completely stock > # > # > install > # > # > # > without > # > # > # > drama... will be pretty gutless, but > # > should be > # > # > # > economical... > # > # > # > > # > # > # > suggestions on gearing for it? > # > # > # > > # > # > # > My options are 4.10, 3.54 or 3.31 at this > # > point... > # > # > # > > # > # > # > Not sure what I'll do with the CJ10A at > # > this > # > # > point... > # > # > # > may drop my > # > # > # > 258 or 232... or even a Ford 460... after > # > all those > # > # > 4.88 > # > # > # > gears > # > # > # > in that big honkin' rear end are > # > ford... > # > # > # > > # > # > # > the CJ10a is a 2wd config with an NP219(?) > # > plated > # > # > out for > # > # > # > 2wd only. > # > # > # > > # > # > # > Anyone interested in the CJ10A chassis? :) > # > # > # > > # > # > # > I may go up north Saturday, not sure I can > # > wait > # > # > until > # > # > # > Sunday... ;) > # > # > # > > # > # > # > john > # > # > # > > # > # > # > ----- > # > # > # > > # > # > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where > # > Jeeps > # > # > don't > # > # > # > rust, they mold > # > # > # > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust > # > Jesus: > # > # > # > http://freegift.com > # > # > # > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: > # > # > # > http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > # > # > # > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: > # > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > # > # > > # > # > > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] CJ10! most Diesel engines have expensive parts... but this engine was popular in Asia and Australia, so parts are going to be a bit more affordable if you know folks in those regions. The Renault turbo Diesel I had in my Cherokee was horribly expensive... Mercedes, BMW and VW Diesels are more affordable. This engine will bolt right into my J10... it's the non-turbo. Interestingly enough the turbo is 103hp, while the non-turbo is 94hp. not a radical difference. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 6 Dec 2008, Diana Eichert wrote: # John # # I had a 1980 IH Turbo Diesel Scout II with the Nissan SD33T. # It's a great motor, but parts are expensive if you ever need # to do work on it. You also might want to check on parts # availibility, I don't know of anything past the early # 80's which used this motor. Though it may have had some # marine applications too. # # diana # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2927 **********************************