From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jan 20 12:33:17 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, January 20 2009 Volume 01 : Number 2971 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:46:17 -0600 From: Allen Zylstra Subject: RE: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz I'm going to stock up on some popcorn. This could get interesting. Allen> From: thetrain-at-gmail.com> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:41:54 -0800> > I don't know I live in Seattle> > Popcorn and moonshine huh?> > Hmmm I suppose I could strip the copper tubing out of the radiator and > make a still.> > > On Jan 20, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote:> > > OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to John do you?!?!?!> > This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!!> >> > ;)> >> > Jim> >> > --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote:> >> >> From: Travis Barnard > >> Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz> >> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net> >> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM> >> I've been recently looking into a replacement body for> >> my beatup and> >> rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about> >> a car like> >> this).> >>> >> The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the> >> recent> >> downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for> >> under 5k and> >> after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is> >> only about> >> 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo> >> diesels are a> >> bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not> >> speed freak> >> anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that> >> for anyone.> >> So my question is this, does anyone have any experience> >> transplanting> >> motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be> >> researching> >> before going further with such a crazy notion? _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:53:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Definately too close!!! Yup, stock up on popcorn now!! There are a few of us who have used John's "adventures" as an excuse to kick back in a lawn chair and consume massive amounts of popcorn while John waffles on what to do next. It's quite entertaining. Of course part of the entertainment is that rarely does anything "really" happen! You could make this much more interesting! ;) And, of course, these are all "virtual" get-togethers since we all live thousands of miles apart! ;) Alec!! Jon!! I've forgotten... Who's in charge of what?!? We need to get organized!!! :) Jim - --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote: > From: Travis Barnard > Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:41 PM > I don't know I live in Seattle > > Popcorn and moonshine huh? > > Hmmm I suppose I could strip the copper tubing out of the > radiator and > make a still. > > > On Jan 20, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > > OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to > John do you?!?!?! > > This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!! > > > > ;) > > > > Jim > > > > --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard > wrote: > > > >> From: Travis Barnard > >> Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz > >> To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM > >> I've been recently looking into a replacement > body for > >> my beatup and > >> rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a > song about > >> a car like > >> this). > >> > >> The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. > With the > >> recent > >> downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee > Limited for > >> under 5k and > >> after doing a little research it appears that the > Jeep is > >> only about > >> 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl > turbo > >> diesels are a > >> bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm > really not > >> speed freak > >> anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will > fix that > >> for anyone. > >> So my question is this, does anyone have any > experience > >> transplanting > >> motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I > should be > >> researching > >> before going further with such a crazy notion? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz you've come to the right place... step into the Snohomish Monster Carport for a few minutes... :) I was looking at doing this to a '99 WJ not long ago... I've considered putting a Benz Diesel into an XJ or even my J10. The 300SD probably weighs in around 3,800lbs or so, right? The WJ weighs around 3,950. My '83 J10 stepside is 4,100lbs and most XJs are around 3,500-3,800lbs. Most Grand Wagoneers are in the 4,500 - 5,100 lb range. So, power to weight for your setup is within reason... here are the challenges that must be overcome: 1) the engine is a front sump, the axle and steering will get in the way... - recommend getting a rear sump pan or massive amounts of lift. 2) you'll need to mate the Mercedes Diesel to the Jeep trans, need an adapter... could be made... you'll need to adapt the flex plate and possibly need a new torque converter... this is the direction I'm considering first, however you face issues with the computer.(s). remember the torque curve is different, you'll need to research and work with a knowledgeable trans shop... computer issues may be resolved with a manual override possible with the AW4... not sure about the 42RE on the 4.0 or the 45RFE on the 4.7. http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/WJ-transcode-0700/ http://wjjeeps.com/speed_sensors.htm 3) if you use the benz engine and trans you'll either need a custom adapter to mate the trans to the xfr case... or rig up a divorced case setup of some kind... this could add length to the drivetrain... this could have a ripple effect... you'll need driveshafts. (my philosophy on doing these swaps it to try to use the stock transfer case in place along with the stock driveshafts... and move the engine forward... if you have the room.) 4) ok, so let's say you have the engine/trans/xfr case all in place... now you'll need to deal with wiring... this will take the skill set of both an electrical engineer and a computer engineer... there are so many freakin' computers on a WJ that you'll be facing some serious challenges to make it all work... I tried to set up the heated seats on my WJ seats in my '91 Grand Wagoneer... I had to buy TWO WJ computers and never did finish the project... started it in the Blazer, never finished... 5) plumbing... coolant... you'll need to add an oil cooler... minor problems. 6) engine mounts... recommend using the benz mounts, have saddles made up to use the stock WJ bases... you'll need to find the center line of the engine and keep things lined up properly... depending on whether you go with 2 or 3 you may need to move it forward or back. not a big issue... any one with a welder and big hammer can make this part work. :) 7) firewall clearance... shouldn't be a problem 8) brake system - the benz uses a vacuum pump for the brake booster, shouldn't be a problem. 9) exhaust system... if your WJ is a 4.0L the exhaust is on the driver's side... on the benz it's on the passenger side... the 4.7L V8 comes out passenger side: http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/under-wj-2.jpg After having done about a half-dozen of these swaps with more planned, you really need to 1) question your sanity 2) make sure you have lots of budget for odd ball issues and parts 3) make sure you have lots of friends with lots of skills 4) make sure you aren't planning on having this happen in weeks - figure 6 to 8 months at a minimum, and that's just mechanical, you may need more for faking the comptuers out... and you need those computers for just about everything on that body... I am giving thought to using either a 2.5 or 3.0 Mercedes Turbo Diesel in my '83 J10 stepside, but will probably keep the T-5... which means I'll need to find a flywheel and clutch setup for the benz... no, wait, just the flywheel and hope they're the same size... Why do these ideas have to be so complicated? :) The 6.2L Diesel in my '91 Grand Wagoneer would have been better had I not used the Novak Adapter mounts or xfr case setup... should have used stock GM mounts, more soundproofing on the firewall when the engine was out and the Advance Adapter setup on the trans instead of the xfr case... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ hope this helps... if you decide to bail... how much for that engine? and where are you? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Travis Barnard wrote: # I've been recently looking into a replacement body for my beatup and # rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about a car like this). # # The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the recent # downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for under 5k and # after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is only about # 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo diesels are a # bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not speed freak # anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that for anyone. # So my question is this, does anyone have any experience transplanting # motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be researching # before going further with such a crazy notion? # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz rofl... I've already responded... the monster carport is open and looking for victims... donors and volunteers... what's your take on an '87 Montero as a Diesel project? would Travis' engine fit? :) heading down to the benz dealer to get my fan blower part, that'll keep me from doing any swaps for a few days. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Jim Hoffman wrote: # OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to John do you?!?!?! # This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!! # # ;) # # Jim # # --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote: # # > From: Travis Barnard # > Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz # > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM # > I've been recently looking into a replacement body for # > my beatup and # > rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about # > a car like # > this). # > # > The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the # > recent # > downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for # > under 5k and # > after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is # > only about # > 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo # > diesels are a # > bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not # > speed freak # > anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that # > for anyone. # > So my question is this, does anyone have any experience # > transplanting # > motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be # > researching # > before going further with such a crazy notion? # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:19:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz uh-oh. :) Seattle, huh? rofl... guys, you better buy that popcorn in bulk... :) rofl... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Travis Barnard wrote: # I don't know I live in Seattle # # Popcorn and moonshine huh? # # Hmmm I suppose I could strip the copper tubing out of the radiator and make a # still. # # # On Jan 20, 2009, at 11:31 AM, Jim Hoffman wrote: # # >OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to John do you?!?!?! # >This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!! # > # > ;) # > # >Jim # > # >--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote: # > # > >From: Travis Barnard # > >Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz # > >To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > >Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM # > >I've been recently looking into a replacement body for # > >my beatup and # > >rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about # > >a car like # > >this). # > > # > >The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the # > >recent # > >downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for # > >under 5k and # > >after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is # > >only about # > >300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo # > >diesels are a # > >bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not # > >speed freak # > >anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that # > >for anyone. # > >So my question is this, does anyone have any experience # > >transplanting # > >motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be # > >researching # > >before going further with such a crazy notion? # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:24:02 -0800 From: Travis Barnard Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz Ughhh Yuck Montero! On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, john wrote: > rofl... I've already responded... the monster carport is open and > looking for victims... donors and volunteers... > > what's your take on an '87 Montero as a Diesel project? would Travis' > engine fit? :) > > heading down to the benz dealer to get my fan blower part, that'll > keep me from doing any swaps for a few days. ;) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Jim Hoffman wrote: > > # OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to John do you?!?!?! > # This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!! > # > # ;) > # > # Jim > # > # --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote: > # > # > From: Travis Barnard > # > Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz > # > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net > # > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM > # > I've been recently looking into a replacement body for > # > my beatup and > # > rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about > # > a car like > # > this). > # > > # > The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the > # > recent > # > downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for > # > under 5k and > # > after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is > # > only about > # > 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo > # > diesels are a > # > bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not > # > speed freak > # > anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that > # > for anyone. > # > So my question is this, does anyone have any experience > # > transplanting > # > motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be > # > researching > # > before going further with such a crazy notion? > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:33:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz good response... keeps me in the Jeep and Mercedes world... I needed that. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Travis Barnard wrote: # Ughhh Yuck Montero! # # On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:18 PM, john wrote: # # > rofl... I've already responded... the monster carport is open and # > looking for victims... donors and volunteers... # > # > what's your take on an '87 Montero as a Diesel project? would Travis' # > engine fit? :) # > # > heading down to the benz dealer to get my fan blower part, that'll # > keep me from doing any swaps for a few days. ;) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://johnmeister.com/fotomeister - Trust Jesus: http://freegift.com # > SAVE power, avoid viruses, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # OH, jeez, here we go... You don't live close to John do you?!?!?! # > # This could cause a HUGE run on popcorn and moonshine!! # > # # > # ;) # > # # > # Jim # > # # > # --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Travis Barnard wrote: # > # # > # > From: Travis Barnard # > # > Subject: [db] What to do with a beatup old benz # > # > To: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > # > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 1:29 PM # > # > I've been recently looking into a replacement body for # > # > my beatup and # > # > rather thrashed 300SD(I think Adam Sandler had a song about # > # > a car like # > # > this). # > # > # > # > The engine is in great shape 230K +/- very strong. With the # > # > recent # > # > downturn I have found a 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited for # > # > under 5k and # > # > after doing a little research it appears that the Jeep is # > # > only about # > # > 300lbs heavier than my Benz. I know that the 5cyl turbo # > # > diesels are a # > # > bit anemic by most peoples standards but I'm really not # > # > speed freak # > # > anymore; a couple of years driving a VW Bus will fix that # > # > for anyone. # > # > So my question is this, does anyone have any experience # > # > transplanting # > # > motors in Jeep's and of course any concerns I should be # > # > researching # > # > before going further with such a crazy notion? # > # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #2971 **********************************