From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 18 21:54:51 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, February 19 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3005 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] axles for the cj-10a arrived [db] kids are expensive... Re: [db] Gelled fuel revisited... Re: [db] Gelled fuel revisited... [db] Wednesday wrenching... [db] Veggie oil Re: [db] Veggie oil [db] Rear wheel bearings on a W123? Re: [db] Rear wheel bearings on a W123? Re: [db] Veggie oil [db] the panel Re: [db] Veggie oil Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:04:29 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: [db] axles for the cj-10a arrived the '85 Grand Wagoneer was dropped off today... took pictures to show size differences... the tug is 2 feet wider than the GW. next step: - ----------- swap tires on GW, get the tires to the guy to complete that deal fix the rear calipers on the WJ pull axles from GW pull axles from tug fix the starter on the tug install GW axles on tug get driveshafts for the tug pull the engine from the GW for the Panel see if I can find another set of axles for the gw part the gw or sell it with "some assembly required" size comparison: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Feb_18_rims-n-axles/1985-GW-arrives.html the slotted FSJ rims next to the tug... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Feb_18_rims-n-axles/tug-with-slots.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:52:04 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: [db] kids are expensive... no sooner do I get the tires swapped on the '85 GW and my son decides he wants it... so we're going to sell the '67 J100 panel, find one of my transfer cases to fix the '85, and find another set of axles for the tug... :) jeep projects were a lot simpler when my son was in the air force... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:15:15 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] Gelled fuel revisited... Hmm. Have been running the Benz and the TDI Jetta all winter, had temps down to -15 on some mornings and they both fired up and ran fine. The TDI seems to be pretty much impervious to temp. The 300D is sluggish for about the first mile, then it seems to do fine. I wonder if the diesel suppliers here in SW lower MI and NW upper Indiana switch formulas to winter diesel and put some anti gelling mix as I have not had any real issues?? Richard Welty wrote: > On 2/17/09 11:44 PM, john wrote: >> that would explain why we don't get #1 here and why my Diesels still >> worked at 15 degrees... >> >> one trick I have used with Diesels when we couldn't get #1 was to >> add 1 gallon of regular gas to about 20 gallons of Diesel #2. >> > around here (upstate NY), we have found that most diesel comes from > one supplier and > has issues with gelling, but Hess diesel is different and much better > stuff. > > richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:19:07 GMT From: "jasonbassett-at-juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Gelled fuel revisited... Some do, some don't. Your favorite apparently does. J - -- Edward Pomeroy wrote: Hmm. Have been running the Benz and the TDI Jetta all winter, had temps down to -15 on some mornings and they both fired up and ran fine. The TDI seems to be pretty much impervious to temp. The 300D is sluggish for about the first mile, then it seems to do fine. I wonder if the diesel suppliers here in SW lower MI and NW upper Indiana switch formulas to winter diesel and put some anti gelling mix as I have not had any real issues?? Richard Welty wrote: > On 2/17/09 11:44 PM, john wrote: >> that would explain why we don't get #1 here and why my Diesels still >> worked at 15 degrees... >> >> one trick I have used with Diesels when we couldn't get #1 was to >> add 1 gallon of regular gas to about 20 gallons of Diesel #2. >> > around here (upstate NY), we have found that most diesel comes from > one supplier and > has issues with gelling, but Hess diesel is different and much better > stuff. > > richard ____________________________________________________________ Get free phone system price quotes from multiple dealers and save! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsO1tQNRIFp5zeJ3MEk9lEXDeHmG LF5ZWaSnqQp2IlLayHs79iUl01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:55:33 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: [db] Wednesday wrenching... looks like I'm heading out to work on the tug and my wj tonight... plan to pull the starter off of the 3.3L Diesel so I can get one somewhere... figure it'll be easier if it's in my hand... Will photograph it... anyone in the Seattle-Everett area know of anyone that could rebuild it? There used to be a great shop in Lynnwood, but the guy retired, how rude... ;) Have to swap the rear calipers out of the WJ tonight... when I hauled a load to the transfer station on Sunday had "smoke on the rotors"... managed to get home by shocking the caliper into submission with cold water and hitting it with the handle of a shovel... freed up and I drove the rest of the way home without touching the brakes... two vehicles is simply not enough. ;) Was going to start the axle swap between the '85 GW and the '86 CJ-10a but my son has decided he wants the '85 GW... I've found two other sets of axles so I don't mind not having to do more work. :) He's also decided to sell the '67 J100 Panel, so that means I don't need to pull the 360 out of the GW either... this keeps getting better... The '85 GW looks nicer than the panel in the drive as well. So, we saved two FSJs today and am still on the road to getting another one back on the road.... (I count the CJ-10A to be an FSJ... it has a Wagoneer frame, and will have Wagoneer axles before I'm done. :) well, back to wrenching... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:46:20 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: [db] Veggie oil I have a source of WVO. I don't really want to build a bio still, any pointers on using it straight? Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:10:38 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Veggie oil yes. Filter it, use about 20% mixed with regular Diesel and it should be fine. I used a 10 micron water filter I picked up at home depot. I bought one of those rotary pumps for $10 at harbor fright... didn't last... bought one of those $250 or so electric pumps with a filter on the output... works much better... you could also gravity feed/filter... pour the WVO into a barrel up high and let it drain out through a spigot through that home depot filter into another barrel... or, you could use filter funnels and pour the wvo into another container that way, chuck uses those... they're a bit messier though. Anyway, before you put it in your tank, make sure it's filtered to at least 15-20 microns... and chances are any seals that you have that are marginal will start acting up... remember the high pressure seals on my '91 that I had to replace, then the seal on the pre-heater/filter? not a big deal, at least you won't need to replace the injector bypass lines with viton for wvo... wvo is a bit nicer on the system than biodiesel I've found... the other option is to add a 2nd tank, heat it and use it... ultimately I'll setup one of my Jeep Diesel projects that way... On my Mercedes will just use biodiesel and regular Diesel... oh, one other warning, WVO and BioDiesel are NOT compatible... not sure why, chuck can explain it... :) While not fully understanding his technical answer, I understood enough to not want to attempt it. Chuck is indeed the biodiesel braumeister... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Mike Frank wrote: # I have a source of WVO. I don't really want to build a bio still, any # pointers on using it straight? # # Mike Frank # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Ditwiler Subject: [db] Rear wheel bearings on a W123? Anybody ever do rear wheel bearings on a W123? I got quoted $800 something by an independent who said that "the rear bearings are not smooth" after concluding that my galloping noise was a bad tranny mount and not the rear bearings. I know that the front ones can get pretty load and still work pretty well. The parts are about $150. I would probably walk away from a sedan approaching 400,000 miles but this is a coupe and the seat fits me well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:57:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Rear wheel bearings on a W123? I'd find another shop... I don't have a manual nearby, but you could buy an entire rear end for that much... would think the bearings would need to be pressed on, but come on, they're not gold plated... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Eric Ditwiler wrote: # Anybody ever do rear wheel bearings on a W123? # # I got quoted $800 something by an independent who said that "the rear bearings are not smooth" after concluding that my galloping noise was a bad tranny mount and not the rear bearings. I know that the front ones can get pretty load and still work pretty well. # # The parts are about $150. # # I would probably walk away from a sedan approaching 400,000 miles but this is a coupe and the seat fits me well. # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:29:01 -0800 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] Veggie oil On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:46:20 -0500, Mike Frank wrote: > I have a source of WVO. I don't really want to build a bio still, any > pointers on using it straight? Hi Mike, I did WVO blending for a couple of years before I built my BioDiesel processor. I have mixed feelings about it really. On the one hand it is about the cheapest, simplest way to go. On the other hand, it has risks. It is also a really messy job. The key is really the quality of the oil, and the reliability of your source. When I started I had a very good source. It was a small-scale neighborhood burger joint being run by a bunch of west coast neo-hippie "Greener"** types. 20-something kids who were "like... totally jazzed about somebody like... you know...recycling their waste, dude!" They listened to my input, used high-quality Canola oil, kept is scrupulously clean & dry, fried only potatoes & onions in it, and left it for me in clean buckets, kept out of the rain. That lasted about 9 months, the staff turned over 100%, and then the place changed hands. Before I knew it, the el cheapo owner had replaced the entire staff with non-english speakers who could have been frying rats for all I know... and was buying the least-expensive hydrogenated crap he could find, dumping ice and garbage into it, and leaving it in dirty buckets open to the elements. =\ Then he signed up with a local commercial BD processor who paid him 25" per gallon for that crap. Actually I was happy to lose that source as I was throwing more oil away than I was keeping. You need to filter and dewater WVO prior to use in the car. Filtering is easy, dewatering not so much. For filtering, I used gravity, hand-pumps, cartridge water filters, and filter socks. Starting at 200 microns and progressing down to 1 micron. It was much easier to handle the oil when it was hot, so I kept it warm with a barrel heater strap in the winter. Even filtering that much didn't stop me from clogging up an injector in my TDI. The dirtier the oil the faster you go through filters... which does add up in terms of cost! Dewatering is done by letting it settle, and draining the oil from a higher level than the water. Time is your best friend there, though I know there are several chemical shortcuts you can take... I just never tried any of them. It is pretty easy to make a standpipe settling tank from any standard barrel and some cheap plumbing you can buy anywhere. Let me know if you need some plans, as I'd be happy to share them. Now that I'm processing WVO into BioDiesel I can very plainly see the crap that comes out through that refinement process and it shocks me that any modern engine can handle the heavier elements of waste veggie oil. The difference in weight and clarity between WVO and BioDiesel is amazing. When I was running on WVO/#2 I varied it depending upon ambient temps, rarely exceeding a 50% blend. I did get caught once in a rapid cold front that almost stranded me as the car could not pump the thick mixture as the thermometer plunged. Didn't help that I was driving from California to Washington on a 50/50 tank... starting in 750F and finishing around 200F! Good luck, and let us know how it goes. ** "Greener" - See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_State_College - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:42:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] the panel looks like my son just saved me a lot of work... :) I think... I hope... anyway, he's taking the '85 Grand Wagoneer... I've found two more sets of axles that are already loose... less work... and since he decided he'd rather have the '85 GW than the Panel, I don't have to swap engines, install hubs or a driveshaft... :) dropped the price on the panel... http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/1040698087.html didn't work on anything tonight... still need to do the wj brakes and pull that starter... both in the shop... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:54:39 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Veggie oil yeah, and they had great burgers at the onset... right across the street from my office... worked out nicely... :) too bad the original manager and the owner had a falling out... actually there were several managers and fallouts and as chuck noted a deterioration of the oil... when I quit working down there chuck stepped in to retrieve the oil... that was a great source... think it was about four or five gallon buckets a week... they were pretty much the only food in the area there in south lake union... http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2005/view-from-office.jpg they were right behind that tow truck... :) I don't miss that commute at all. although my 300D sure did get decent mileage on that commute, despite the traffic... 31 mpg. best I'm doing with all the stoplights now is about 28. With my Blazer I got carried away with my filtered WVO and couldn't get the 6.2 started... had to use ether to start it... it ran horribly... drove it until I could get dino diesel in it... took a while... must have put about 3/4 t of WVO in it... I never had trouble with filters or injectors, but I was really careful about filtering... had two filters on my pump... and of course, good oil... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, chuck goolsbee wrote: # On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:46:20 -0500, Mike Frank wrote: # > I have a source of WVO. I don't really want to build a bio still, any # > pointers on using it straight? # # Hi Mike, # # I did WVO blending for a couple of years before I built my BioDiesel # processor. # # I have mixed feelings about it really. On the one hand it is about the # cheapest, # simplest way to go. On the other hand, it has risks. It is also a really # messy job. # # The key is really the quality of the oil, and the reliability of your # source. # # When I started I had a very good source. It was a small-scale neighborhood # burger joint being run by a bunch of west coast neo-hippie "Greener"** # types. 20-something kids who were "like... totally jazzed about somebody # like... you know...recycling their waste, dude!" They listened to my input, # used high-quality Canola oil, kept is scrupulously clean & dry, fried only # potatoes & onions in it, and left it for me in clean buckets, kept out of # the rain. That lasted about 9 months, the staff turned over 100%, and then # the place changed hands. Before I knew it, the el cheapo owner had replaced # the entire staff with non-english speakers who could have been frying rats # for all I know... and was buying the least-expensive hydrogenated crap he # could find, dumping ice and garbage into it, and leaving it in dirty # buckets open to the elements. =\ # Then he signed up with a local commercial BD processor who paid him 25" per # gallon for that crap. # Actually I was happy to lose that source as I was throwing more oil away # than I was keeping. # # You need to filter and dewater WVO prior to use in the car. # # Filtering is easy, dewatering not so much. For filtering, I used gravity, # hand-pumps, cartridge water filters, and filter socks. Starting at 200 # microns and progressing down to 1 micron. It was much easier to handle the # oil when it was hot, so I kept it warm with a barrel heater strap in the # winter. Even filtering that much didn't stop me from clogging up an # injector in my TDI. The dirtier the oil the faster you go through # filters... which does add up in terms of cost! # # Dewatering is done by letting it settle, and draining the oil from a higher # level than the water. Time is your best friend there, though I know there # are several chemical shortcuts you can take... I just never tried any of # them. It is pretty easy to make a standpipe settling tank from any standard # barrel and some cheap plumbing you can buy anywhere. Let me know if you # need some plans, as I'd be happy to share them. # # Now that I'm processing WVO into BioDiesel I can very plainly see the crap # that comes out through that refinement process and it shocks me that any # modern engine can handle the heavier elements of waste veggie oil. The # difference in weight and clarity between WVO and BioDiesel is amazing. # # When I was running on WVO/#2 I varied it depending upon ambient temps, # rarely exceeding a 50% blend. I did get caught once in a rapid cold front # that almost stranded me as the car could not pump the thick mixture as the # thermometer plunged. Didn't help that I was driving from California to # Washington on a 50/50 tank... starting in 750F and finishing around 200F! # # Good luck, and let us know how it goes. # # ** "Greener" - See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_State_College # # --chuck goolsbee # 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD # arlington, wa, usa # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3005 **********************************