From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 3 13:06:38 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, April 3 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3036 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] local Diesel test drives [db] Re: [CJ-10List] Re: QUESTION: can I put a turbo from an SD33T on an SD33? [db] Re: [CJ-10List] QUESTION: can I put a turbo from an SD33T on an SD33? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] local Diesel test drives sounds great! I'll let you drive my tug too so you can truly appreciate what you have. ;) john -o|||||o- 1986 CJ-10A 3.3L Diesel/AT 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) hydraulic dump trailer 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not reassembled yet... -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, Joe wrote: # John, # Come on over and take her for a spin. # # If you can tolerate the 4bt in the Willys than it would be great in the J10. # My Willys is got to be the worst case scenario, since the firewall and floor # boards are swiss cheesed. The body is welded to the frame, so it's pretty # loud and vibrates a plenty. # # # Joe Hughes # Everett, WA # 22 Willys-Overland Touring # 50 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan # 88 Honda CBR-600 <- Currently DD # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:37 PM # To: Jim Hoffman # Cc: full size jeep list; David Ashby; diesel-benz list # Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: RE: Ford 6.9 and 7.3 Diesels # # the 6.2 is 650 lbs. # # interestingly enough, the 3.3L Nissan is 672 lbs... it's a dry sleeve # engine... # # I'll have to listen to Joe's 4BT a few more times to decide if I # want to go that way in my J10. :) # # Just bled the injectors (again) over at Startups in Everett, seemed # to run better... man, bad fuel can make life miserable... I should have # gotten that stuff out of the tank as soon as I saw it... # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Wed, 1 Apr 2009, Jim Hoffman wrote: # # # Well, I'm pretty sure the 6Bt Cummins is just over 1000lbs. I # # recently saw that the Navistar 6.0l PowerStroke replacement for # # the 7.3l is just over 1000lbs also. So my guess is that the 6.9 # # and 7.3 IDIs would be around the same weight. I've Googled for # # actual weights but have not come up with anything. But I think # # it's safe to say that the GM engine is quite a bit lighter. I # # think the 4Bt Cummins is around 700lbs. # # # # Jim # # # # --- On Wed, 4/1/09, john wrote: # # # # > From: john # # > Subject: [db] Re: fsj: RE: Ford 6.9 and 7.3 Diesels # # > To: "Tesar Landon-R16884" # # > Cc: "Jim Blair" , "full size jeep list" # , "diesel-benz list" # # > Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 2:05 PM # # > thanx! # # > # # > like the picture of the "intellidog" as well... # # > # # > I have access to another 6.2L Diesel as well... # # > # # > what's the weight differences between the 6.2s and the # # > 6.9/7.3? # # > # # > any advantage/disadvantages? # # > # # > the 4BT is also something to consider, along with a # # > Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0L Turbo Diesel... # # > # # > john # # > # # > ----- # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # # > rust, they mold # # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # # > http://creationwiki.org # # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # # > http://fotomeister.us # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > # # > # # > On Wed, 1 Apr 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # # > # # > # John, I liked this page... # # > # # # > # http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/idi.htm # # > # # # > # Seems somewhere in the middle, early 90's had a # # > combination of early # # > # simplicity, and working out the bugs. I've been # # > told to stay away from # # > # the early turbo versions, but don't expect much # # > power from the NA # # > # versions. # # > # # # > # - Landon # # > # # # > # -----Original Message----- # # > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] # # > On Behalf Of # # > # john # # > # Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 1:32 PM # # > # To: Jim Blair # # > # Cc: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list # # > # Subject: fsj: Ford 6.9 and 7.3 Diesels # # > # # # > # what years, and motors are the options, and which would # # > # be the best... # # > # # # > # I would think that an EOD could be swapped for the C6, # # > right? # # > # kind of like a TH400 replacing a 700R4. # # > # # # > # This is just a thought... have an '83 J10 stepside, # # > a Ford C6 and # # > # NP205... # # > # # # > # the tug is doing ok, but very underpowered, of course we # # > all knew # # > # that... # # > # the key is economy, if it's economical, who cares # # > about the power? # # > # traffic # # > # is the great leveler... ;) can't use power if # # > you're bumper to # # > # bumper... :) # # > # # # > # john # # > # # # > # ----- # # > # # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # # > don't rust, they mold # # > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # # > http://creationwiki.org # # > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # # > http://fotomeister.us # # > # # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > # # # > # # # > # On Wed, 1 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # > # # # > # # # # > # # Re: fsj: RE: [db] trans question # # > # # Posted by: "Jim Blair" # # > carnuck-at-hotmail.com carnuck # # > # # Date: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:07 pm ((PDT)) # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # They are both great motors, but the starters can be a # # > pain. The # # > # Mitsubishi # # > # one is better than the regular Ford one, but expen$ive # # > to fix (-at-$200 for # # > # a 3 # # > # year version) # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 # # > Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # # # > # # ---------------------------------------- # # > # # > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:59:32 -0700 # # > # # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # # > # # > To: jslash-at-sbcglobal.net # # > # # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net # # > # # > Subject: fsj: RE: [db] trans question # # > # # > # # > # # > that opens some options... what's your # # > though on those Diesels? # # > # # > # # > # # > how heavy are they? # # > # # > # # > # # > john # # > # # # # > _________________________________________________________________ # # > # # Rediscover Hotmail.: Now available on your iPhone or # # > BlackBerry # # > # # # # > # # # > # http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover # # > # _Mobi # # > # le1_042009 # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:19:37 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: [db] Re: [CJ-10List] Re: QUESTION: can I put a turbo from an SD33T on an SD33? sounds like fun... where are you located? I might be interested in leftover parts. :) I've heard a mix of responses on the turbo on the na version... oil squirters are one of the main differences... however, one guy reported this has been done before and you can just "detune" the turbo a bit to lower the boost. another guy suggested getting a pyrometer to monitor the engine... the prevailing wisdom though is to swap the entire engine, and really that would be easier than swapping manifolds/pumps/injectors, assuming the pump/injectors are different. anyway, it turns out that the SD33T is still in a Terra... I plan to buy the entire Scout, swap the engines so my tug has the turbo motor and sell of the scout... waiting for pictures... the guy even has a tow bar he'll sell so I can flat tow it home. He has a friend that can meet me halfway too... he's waiting for the snow to clear so it'll be a while before we complete the deal... :) At a minimum I'm buying the engine... he's going to dig through his Diesel parts to see if he can find another turbo setup as well... he's a big scout enthusiast. we have a lot in common, except that I'm into Jeeps... he said that Jeep is a four letter word. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, bsunshine92105 wrote: # Hi, I have done a little research on this, Don't have any doc's to back it up, just talking to machanics that have worked on them. # # In short, The only issue is the sd33's have no "oil squirters" installed, where as the sd33t's do. But I was told a some of the cj10a's did have them installed, maybe a mil spec issue I don't know. I have not pulled my pan yet or probed to see if I have them or not. # # The oil squirters add oil to the botom sides of the pistions, I have not seen them yet, but they said they are plainly visible. # # The turbo can be diled up to I think 8 to 12 lbs of pressure. # # I currently, have a compleate unmolested cj10a, spare sd33T, 4speed, d300, AND picking up a rolling body next week of another cj10a. # # Plans- Making one out of two, chopping frames to extend. and adding a bed(maybe tilt?) of sorts. But along the lines of a cj10 box? using replacemnt rear corners form a cj up in front and manufacturing sides. Still in the planning stages on that. # # I still need to scan th article on the cj10's so much to do # # steve lewis # # # # # --- In CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com, diesel john wrote: # > # > I've got a 1986 CJ-10A with the factory installed Nissan SD33 non-turbo... # > (link to current pictures below) # > # > I found a used SD33T out of an '80 Scout... # > # > Question is could I take the turbo setup off of the SD33T and put it on my SD33? # > # > It's a great deal on the used engine, but will need to take some time off # > work, hitch up the trailer to the WJ and head over the mountains to retrieve it... # > it's a long shot, the guy bought it as a package with a bunch of other Scout # > parts, but never ran it... I'm thinking fine, the engine is # > an unknown... will just swap the intake/exhaust/turbo and put it on my SD33. # > # > Will I need to swap the injectors/pump as well? # > # > I'm hoping I can simply put the turbo on my SD33... At least until # > after my daughter's wedding in August... or until my '83 J10 Stepside # > comes home... with all the running around we're doing for the # > wedding having the '91 300D and the '86 CJ-10A running about on # > bioDiesel saves us a lot more money than switching car insurance. ;) # > # > # > Anyway, I'm not planning on hauling heavy loads or towing so I won't really # > be putting the engine under extreme stress... # > # > I know with the Mercedes Diesels there are a number of differences in # > the engine between the turbo and non-turbo versions and it's not recommended # > to just slap one on them... but with the Nissan SD33 I'm not sure it's any # > where near its design limits in normal use and eeking another 20hp out of # > that engine would likely not overstress it... The engine is pretty industrial... # > it's like driving a fork lift on the freeway... :) With the 3.31's and # > 235s I can easily cruise at 60mph, at least on level road... :) # > # > If I put the turbo on my low mileage SD33 and it tanks, well, I'll swap # > that engine out for the one that came with the turbo... if it works, I save # > myself the trouble of an engine swap... if it fails, well, I will have # > an interesting story... and maybe some cool pictures... and possibly a tow bill... ;) # > # > thoughts? is putting the turbo setup on the SD33 a sure fire recipe # > for disaster, or will it give my tug a bit more oomph so I can get closer # > to the speed limit on some of the local hills? :) # > # > How much will I need to swap over? This works this will be a weekend upgrade... # > # > After my bad fuel episode I've bled the lines a few times and it's getting # > better... engine is still a little rough, indicating I still have a small # > amount of air in the system... or an injector that isn't happy with me for # > trying to make it run on water. I should have drained that fuel when I # > realized it looked more like chocolate milk than Diesel. :) # > # > Does anyone know what the differences are between the SD33 and SD33T regarding # > the injectors/pump? The air filters and oil filters are the same... this # > engine is elegant in its simplicity... in many ways it's like the Mercedes # > Diesels... and in some ways better... # > # > here's some info I've found on these engines: # > http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/CJ-10A-misc/633graph.gif # > http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/CJ-10A-misc/6NissanSD33T2.jpg # > # > thanx! # > john # > # > CURRENT PICTURES OF THE TUG PROJECT: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Apr_02_dreamlifter-n-tug/ # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Apr_01_Seats-Spacers-Battery-snow/ALL.html # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # # > # The year of 7.3 I would go for would be pre '93 as they went computer controlled after that. (6.9 didn't get the computer) A turbo Nissan 3.3 would be a lot better # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # > the tug is doing ok, but very underpowered, of course we all knew that... # > # > the key is economy, if it's economical, who cares about the power? traffic # > # > is the great leveler... ;) can't use power if you're bumper to bumper... :) # > # > # > # > john # > # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:06:24 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: [db] Re: [CJ-10List] QUESTION: can I put a turbo from an SD33T on an SD33? here's pictures of the used SD33T as it sits in the Terra. http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tug/AXLES_ENGINE_INFO/SD33T-info/ The plan is to buy the Terra complete with a tow bar and drag it home... get THIS engine working in the Terra, if it works, swap this engine into my Tug and put the naturally aspirated SD33 into the Terra and sell it. Pictures are coming of the Terra, the guy said the body is pretty much all used up... but it has a T19 and Dana 20 xfr case with a pair of good D44 axles... Didn't realize that a T19 has syncronized first gear, the T18 doesn't. I figure that even if I can't get this engine to work that I might be able to use the turbo on mine, adjust the boost down a bit so I don't hurt my engine, and get a bit more power out of it.... and then sell off the rest of the Scout. Probably be a month or two before this project finds its way home. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 3 Apr 2009, diesel john wrote: # I've got a 1986 CJ-10A with the factory installed Nissan SD33 non-turbo... # (link to current pictures below) # # I found a used SD33T out of an '80 Scout... # # Question is could I take the turbo setup off of the SD33T and put it on my SD33? # # It's a great deal on the used engine, but will need to take some time off # work, hitch up the trailer to the WJ and head over the mountains to retrieve it... # it's a long shot, the guy bought it as a package with a bunch of other Scout # parts, but never ran it... I'm thinking fine, the engine is # an unknown... will just swap the intake/exhaust/turbo and put it on my SD33. # # Will I need to swap the injectors/pump as well? # # I'm hoping I can simply put the turbo on my SD33... At least until # after my daughter's wedding in August... or until my '83 J10 Stepside # comes home... with all the running around we're doing for the # wedding having the '91 300D and the '86 CJ-10A running about on # bioDiesel saves us a lot more money than switching car insurance. ;) # # # Anyway, I'm not planning on hauling heavy loads or towing so I won't really # be putting the engine under extreme stress... # # I know with the Mercedes Diesels there are a number of differences in # the engine between the turbo and non-turbo versions and it's not recommended # to just slap one on them... but with the Nissan SD33 I'm not sure it's any # where near its design limits in normal use and eeking another 20hp out of # that engine would likely not overstress it... The engine is pretty industrial... # it's like driving a fork lift on the freeway... :) With the 3.31's and # 235s I can easily cruise at 60mph, at least on level road... :) # # If I put the turbo on my low mileage SD33 and it tanks, well, I'll swap # that engine out for the one that came with the turbo... if it works, I save # myself the trouble of an engine swap... if it fails, well, I will have # an interesting story... and maybe some cool pictures... and possibly a tow bill... ;) # # thoughts? is putting the turbo setup on the SD33 a sure fire recipe # for disaster, or will it give my tug a bit more oomph so I can get closer # to the speed limit on some of the local hills? :) # # How much will I need to swap over? This works this will be a weekend upgrade... # # After my bad fuel episode I've bled the lines a few times and it's getting # better... engine is still a little rough, indicating I still have a small # amount of air in the system... or an injector that isn't happy with me for # trying to make it run on water. I should have drained that fuel when I # realized it looked more like chocolate milk than Diesel. :) # # Does anyone know what the differences are between the SD33 and SD33T regarding # the injectors/pump? The air filters and oil filters are the same... this # engine is elegant in its simplicity... in many ways it's like the Mercedes # Diesels... and in some ways better... # # here's some info I've found on these engines: # http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/CJ-10A-misc/633graph.gif # http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/CJ-10A-misc/6NissanSD33T2.jpg # # thanx! # john # # CURRENT PICTURES OF THE TUG PROJECT: # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Apr_02_dreamlifter-n-tug/ # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Apr_01_Seats-Spacers-Battery-snow/ALL.html # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # On Thu, 2 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # # # # The year of 7.3 I would go for would be pre '93 as they went computer controlled after that. (6.9 didn't get the computer) A turbo Nissan 3.3 would be a lot better # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # > the tug is doing ok, but very underpowered, of course we all knew that... # # > the key is economy, if it's economical, who cares about the power? traffic # # > is the great leveler... ;) can't use power if you're bumper to bumper... :) # # > # # > john # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3036 **********************************