From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Apr 11 10:41:51 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, April 11 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3041 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:15:43 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Good luck in finding one. I went to the local VW dealer last month and asked to see a new Passat diesel wagon, there are none, not imported to U.S., bummer!! I was willing to trade the 300D for one too. Hope this silly attitude by VW changes soon. Edward john wrote: > I've had several Rabbit Diesels, older models, and they were good, > the newer ones are way better... have toyed around with the idea > of getting a TDI Passat Wagon... > > My '91 300D with a 2.5L Turbo Diesel gets 30 in town and over 35 > on the freeway, have gotten 39.5 with it... much nicer than a VW > too... larger, not sure about faster... but more comfortable. > > Any Diesel is a good Diesel... :) I even liked my Olds 5.7L... > > Once you get used to mashing the go pedal to the floor it's fine. > > A friend of mine helped me get my vehicles back from the shop once > and wanted to drive the Benz instead of my WJ... > he was supposed to follow me... but he stopped and got out and > closed the hood... was trying to figure out what the heck he > was doing... turns out he was used to driving a gas vehicle and > thought the parking brake was on and pulled the wrong lever... > it was pretty funny, the Benz was running great, and he thought > the parking brake was on. :) > > john > > -o|||||o- > > 1986 CJ-10A 20.4 mpg 3.3L Diesel/AT > 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV247 > 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) hydraulic dump trailer > 1967 Jeep 100 Panel (SJ) 232 cu in /t-85/d20 > > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not reassembled yet... > > -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, David Bierschank wrote: > > # John, > # At the car show I went to a few weeks ago, one of the cars I liked most was > # the VW Rabbit with the Diesel. Good looking car 30 city 40 hwy. Fairly loaded > # of comes in right at 25k. There is also a tax rebate of I think 1500 on the > # diesel version. I have not driven one but it looks interesting. > # > # David Bierschank > # > # Sent from my iPhone > # > # On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM, john wrote: > # > # >mercedes appears to be on the same wavelength: > # > > # >http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/mercedes-benz-to-bring-4-cylinder-diesels-to-the-us/ > # > > # >thanx, > # >john > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # >On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Tom H wrote: > # > > # > # VW is laying out their strategy > # > # > # > # http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/vw-chief-makes-case-for-diesel-and-cash-for-clunkers/ > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids is it vw or our goofy and ignorant restrictions? ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Good luck in finding one. I went to the local VW # dealer last month and asked to see a new Passat # diesel wagon, there are none, not imported to # U.S., bummer!! I was willing to trade the 300D # for one too. Hope this silly attitude by VW # changes soon. # # Edward # # john wrote: # > I've had several Rabbit Diesels, older models, # > and they were good, # > the newer ones are way better... have toyed # > around with the idea # > of getting a TDI Passat Wagon... # > # > My '91 300D with a 2.5L Turbo Diesel gets 30 in # > town and over 35 # > on the freeway, have gotten 39.5 with it... much # > nicer than a VW # > too... larger, not sure about faster... but # > more comfortable. # > # > Any Diesel is a good Diesel... :) I even liked # > my Olds 5.7L... # > # > Once you get used to mashing the go pedal to the # > floor it's fine. # > # > A friend of mine helped me get my vehicles back # > from the shop once # > and wanted to drive the Benz instead of my WJ... # > he was supposed to follow me... but he stopped # > and got out and # > closed the hood... was trying to figure out what # > the heck he # > was doing... turns out he was used to driving a # > gas vehicle and # > thought the parking brake was on and pulled the # > wrong lever... # > it was pretty funny, the Benz was running great, # > and he thought # > the parking brake was on. :) # > # > john # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > 1986 CJ-10A 20.4 mpg 3.3L # > Diesel/AT 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) # > 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) # > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L # > V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) # > hydraulic dump trailer 1967 Jeep 100 Panel (SJ) # > 232 cu in /t-85/d20 # > # > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg # > 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not # > reassembled yet... # > # > -o|||||o- # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > # John, # > # At the car show I went to a few weeks ago, one # > # of the cars I liked most was # > # the VW Rabbit with the Diesel. Good looking # > # car 30 city 40 hwy. Fairly loaded # > # of comes in right at 25k. There is also a tax # > # rebate of I think 1500 on the # > # diesel version. I have not driven one but it # > # looks interesting. # > # # > # David Bierschank # > # # > # Sent from my iPhone # > # # > # On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM, john # > # wrote: # > # # > # >mercedes appears to be on the same # > # >wavelength: # > # > # > # >http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/mercedes-benz-to-bring-4-cylinder-diesels-to-the-us/ # > # > # > # >thanx, # > # >john # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # >On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Tom H wrote: # > # > # > # > # VW is laying out their strategy # > # > # # > # > # http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/vw-chief-makes-case-for-diesel-and-cash-for-clunkers/ # > # > # # > # # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:24:03 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids Not sure John. The Passat diesel in Europe meets euro IV and probably V standards which should meet CA, MA and whatever that third state is that has idiot regs on Diesels. But you are correct, it is probably more to do with our rules than their desire. However, in reading the bluetec (Benz) and then the VW statement that VW can meet US regs without urea injection, I wonder when they will get here. Have a Jetta TDI now and looked at the Jetta TDI wagon. The latter did not gain me much over what I can stuff into the existing Jetta by lowering the seat backs so it did not seem like enough of a gain. The Passat or a little Tiguan in Diesel (they don't have that one either, only gas) would have fit the bill. The thought of doing a buy/drive/export from Germany has crossed my mind but the bank is not amenable just now :-) john wrote: > is it vw or our goofy and ignorant restrictions? > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > # Good luck in finding one. I went to the local VW > # dealer last month and asked to see a new Passat > # diesel wagon, there are none, not imported to > # U.S., bummer!! I was willing to trade the 300D > # for one too. Hope this silly attitude by VW > # changes soon. > # > # Edward > # > # john wrote: > # > I've had several Rabbit Diesels, older models, > # > and they were good, > # > the newer ones are way better... have toyed > # > around with the idea > # > of getting a TDI Passat Wagon... > # > > # > My '91 300D with a 2.5L Turbo Diesel gets 30 in > # > town and over 35 > # > on the freeway, have gotten 39.5 with it... much > # > nicer than a VW > # > too... larger, not sure about faster... but > # > more comfortable. > # > > # > Any Diesel is a good Diesel... :) I even liked > # > my Olds 5.7L... > # > > # > Once you get used to mashing the go pedal to the > # > floor it's fine. > # > > # > A friend of mine helped me get my vehicles back > # > from the shop once > # > and wanted to drive the Benz instead of my WJ... > # > he was supposed to follow me... but he stopped > # > and got out and > # > closed the hood... was trying to figure out what > # > the heck he > # > was doing... turns out he was used to driving a > # > gas vehicle and > # > thought the parking brake was on and pulled the > # > wrong lever... > # > it was pretty funny, the Benz was running great, > # > and he thought > # > the parking brake was on. :) > # > > # > john > # > > # > -o|||||o- > # > > # > 1986 CJ-10A 20.4 mpg 3.3L > # > Diesel/AT 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) > # > 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) > # > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L > # > V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) > # > hydraulic dump trailer 1967 Jeep 100 Panel (SJ) > # > 232 cu in /t-85/d20 > # > > # > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg > # > 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not > # > reassembled yet... > # > > # > -o|||||o- > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps > # > don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > http:http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com > # > http:http://fotomeister.us > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, David Bierschank wrote: > # > > # > # John, > # > # At the car show I went to a few weeks ago, one > # > # of the cars I liked most was > # > # the VW Rabbit with the Diesel. Good looking > # > # car 30 city 40 hwy. Fairly loaded > # > # of comes in right at 25k. There is also a tax > # > # rebate of I think 1500 on the > # > # diesel version. I have not driven one but it > # > # looks interesting. > # > # > # > # David Bierschank > # > # > # > # Sent from my iPhone > # > # > # > # On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM, john > # > # wrote: > # > # > # > # >mercedes appears to be on the same > # > # >wavelength: > # > # > > # > # >http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/mercedes-benz-to-bring-4-cylinder-diesels-to-the-us/ > # > # > > # > # >thanx, > # > # >john > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where > # > # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org > # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com > # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > > # > # > > # > # >On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Tom H wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # VW is laying out their strategy > # > # > # > # > # > # http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/vw-chief-makes-case-for-diesel-and-cash-for-clunkers/ > # > # > # > # > # > # > > # > > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] Diesel vs Hybrids CA, MA, VT and NY I believe are the four states that don't allow Diesels... some mfrs don't won't to import unless it can meet all 50 states... so I've heard... all I know is a Diesel engine is inherently more efficient, less polluting, less toxic, than any gasoline engine... unless that gas engine possibly is running on pure alcohol, maybe... ;) I guess the best demonstration of the differences is to ask someone is if there is any doubt about the safety of Diesel emissions vs. Gas engines... to lock themselves in an enclosed space with both and see what happens... I'd recommend trying the Diesel first, unless of course you simply dislike those nasty, dirty, smelly Diesels... Or better, just read the specs on the exhaust outputs and have someone that actually understands science explain the differences to you calmly and slowly, maybe using illustrations and graphics... but don't let them use any fluffy, furry animals to do the test, oh no, that would be wrong, if you dislike Diesels you need to do this yourself... first hand experiential data is trustworthy... I don't know what the problem is with the world... I wasn't a super sharp student in grade school, but I did learn enough in science classes to understand that much of what we hear hyped up in the media these days is junk science with an agenda... common sense is lost to a real agenda... case in point, here's just a few facts that haven't been refuted that make many acts of legislation either in error or unsupportable: - - freon is heavier than air, yet they banned one of the safest and efficient refrigerants known to man... and replaced it with one that is toxic and less efficient... my guess is a patent expired and the patent holder came up with a new product... - - the ozone is in the stratosphere, several thousand feet higher than the highest mountain - - the hole in the ozone is over the least populated part of the planet - - we have accurate meterological data for 50 to maybe 150 years - - the planet is older than 150 years, regardless of your view of the age of the earth that makes the data statistically insignificant - - there are an estimated 6,790,062,216 people on the planet, give or take a few - - there is an estimated 148,940,000 square kilometers of land that's 57,506,606 square miles - - that means each and every person on the planet theoretically could have 236,108.60 square feet... right now... an acre is 43,560 sq ft, so if my math is correct, we could all, each one of us, male and female, could have 5.36 acres each... however, check the math, I think I may have found an error in Excel... ;) 1 square km = 247.1044 acres 1 acre = 43,560 square feet 1 square km = 0.3861022 square miles https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx.html john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Not sure John. The Passat diesel in Europe meets euro IV and probably V # standards which should meet CA, MA and whatever that third state is that has # idiot regs on Diesels. But you are correct, it is probably more to do with # our rules than their desire. However, in reading the bluetec (Benz) and then # the VW statement that VW can meet US regs without urea injection, I wonder # when they will get here. Have a Jetta TDI now and looked at the Jetta TDI # wagon. The latter did not gain me much over what I can stuff into the # existing Jetta by lowering the seat backs so it did not seem like enough of a # gain. The Passat or a little Tiguan in Diesel (they don't have that one # either, only gas) would have fit the bill. The thought of doing a # buy/drive/export from Germany has crossed my mind but the bank is not # amenable just now :-) # # john wrote: # > is it vw or our goofy and ignorant restrictions? # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # > # > # Good luck in finding one. I went to the local VW # > # dealer last month and asked to see a new Passat # > # diesel wagon, there are none, not imported to # > # U.S., bummer!! I was willing to trade the 300D # > # for one too. Hope this silly attitude by VW # > # changes soon. # > # # > # Edward # > # # > # john wrote: # > # > I've had several Rabbit Diesels, older models, # > # > and they were good, # > # > the newer ones are way better... have toyed # > # > around with the idea # > # > of getting a TDI Passat Wagon... # > # > # > # > My '91 300D with a 2.5L Turbo Diesel gets 30 in # > # > town and over 35 # > # > on the freeway, have gotten 39.5 with it... much # > # > nicer than a VW # > # > too... larger, not sure about faster... but # > # > more comfortable. # > # > # > # > Any Diesel is a good Diesel... :) I even liked # > # > my Olds 5.7L... # > # > # > # > Once you get used to mashing the go pedal to the # > # > floor it's fine. # > # > # > # > A friend of mine helped me get my vehicles back # > # > from the shop once # > # > and wanted to drive the Benz instead of my WJ... # > # > he was supposed to follow me... but he stopped # > # > and got out and # > # > closed the hood... was trying to figure out what # > # > the heck he # > # > was doing... turns out he was used to driving a # > # > gas vehicle and # > # > thought the parking brake was on and pulled the # > # > wrong lever... # > # > it was pretty funny, the Benz was running great, # > # > and he thought # > # > the parking brake was on. :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > # > # > 1986 CJ-10A 20.4 mpg 3.3L # > # > Diesel/AT 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) # > # > 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) # > # > 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L # > # > V8/45RFE/NV247 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) # > # > hydraulic dump trailer 1967 Jeep 100 Panel (SJ) # > # > 232 cu in /t-85/d20 # > # > # > # > 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg # > # > 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) - not # > # > reassembled yet... # > # > # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps # > # > don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, David Bierschank wrote: # > # > # > # > # John, # > # > # At the car show I went to a few weeks ago, one # > # > # of the cars I liked most was # > # > # the VW Rabbit with the Diesel. Good looking # > # > # car 30 city 40 hwy. Fairly loaded # > # > # of comes in right at 25k. There is also a tax # > # > # rebate of I think 1500 on the # > # > # diesel version. I have not driven one but it # > # > # looks interesting. # > # > # # > # > # David Bierschank # > # > # # > # > # Sent from my iPhone # > # > # # > # > # On Apr 10, 2009, at 5:43 PM, john # > # > # wrote: # > # > # # > # > # >mercedes appears to be on the same # > # > # >wavelength: # > # > # > # > # > # >http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/mercedes-benz-to-bring-4-cylinder-diesels-to-the-us/ # > # > # > # > # > # >thanx, # > # > # >john # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > # > # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > # > http:http://creationwiki.org # > # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com # > # > # > http:http://fotomeister.us # > # > # >------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # >On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Tom H wrote: # > # > # > # > # > # > # VW is laying out their strategy # > # > # > # # > # > # > # http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/vw-chief-makes-case-for-diesel-and-cash-for-clunkers/ # > # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > # > # > # # > # > # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3041 **********************************