From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 1 14:02:01 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, May 1 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3057 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:10:54 -0500 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? I've gotta go with Jim on this one. I think you should give higher priority to engine requirements than it appears you are doing. Then choose from among those suitable viscosities for the oil that provides the best economy. I would guess that path starts with 15W-40 and leads to a nice AMSOIL synthetic 15W-40 marine. Alec On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:18 AM, john wrote: > my 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel has over 255,000 miles on it and is doing > fine with the 5w30. > > the tug has about 6,900 hrs and 37,000 miles, leaks and uses no oil... > one good thing about the military life was it had scheduled maintenance. > > I don't think the 5w30 amsoil will be a problem because it's not like dino > oil... > > I'm more interested in someone with more knowledege examining the specs to > see which of those three would provide the best fuel economy. > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 1 May 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > # 15W40 was the spec used on the Canadian tugs. The clearances on a not so > new motor are probably too loose to run the 5W30 w/o catastrophic results. > # > # > # > # > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 17:52:02 -0700 > # > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > # > To: > # > Subject: fsj: which oil? > # > > # > trying to decide which amsoil synthetic Diesel oil to use in the > cj-10a... > # > > # > in my '91 300D I use the HDD (5w30), > # > in my 6.2/6.5's and my son's '85 300D have always used the AME (15w40 > marine > # > grade). > # > The ACD is another option, basically heavy duty 30W. > # > > # > all three are rated at 25,000 drain intervals for normal use... > # > > # > my question is which one will allow the best fuel economy in the tug? > all > # > the specs are listed below but I haven't been keeping up on all the > spec > info > # > on the synthetics for some time... > # > > # > I'm thinking the HDD 5w30 will get the best mileage... thoughts? > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > > # > TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES > # > 25,000 mile intervals in normal use, 15,000 severe duty > # > AMSOIL Synthetic Diesel Oils HDD AME ACD > # > price per quart $10.40 $7.90 $7.76 > # > price per gallon $41.00 $31.05 $31.05 > # > SAE weight 5W30 15W40 10W30 > # > Kinematic Viscosity -at- 100B0C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 11.3 14.2 > 10.5 > # > Kinematic Viscosity -at- 40B0C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 64.9 93.2 > 66.3 > # > Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 170 157 141 > # > Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity -at- -30B0C, cP (ASTM D-5293) > 5160 > 4386 > # > 5917 > # > Pour Point B0C (B0F) (ASTM D-97) -50 (-58) -42 (-44) > -36 (-33) > # > Flash Point B0C (B0F) (ASTM D-92) 226 (439) 238(460) > 230(446) > # > Fire Point B0C (B0F) (ASTM D-92) 242 (468) 256(493) > 248(478) > # > Noack Volatility (DIN 51581) 250B0C for 1 hour, % weight loss 7.3 > 7 6.7 > # > High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP, 150B0C, 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM > D-4683) > # > 3.4 4.3 n/a > # > Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172: 40kgf, 150B0C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar > # > diameter, mm 0.38 0.35 0.4 > # > Total Base Number 12.1 12.1 12 > # > > # > > # > AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) HDD > # > AMSOIL Synthetic Diesel & Marine Motor Oil SAE 15W-40 AME > # > AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil > ACD > # > > # > HDD AMSOIL Series 3000 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil (HDD) > delivers > # > extraordinary lubrication in both diesel and gasoline engines found in > # > commercial, fleet and personal vehicles. By combining the industry.s > premier > # > synthetic technology with AMSOIL premium additives, AMSOIL Series 3000 > exceeds > # > the higher performance demands of modern engines. It withstands the > stress of > # > higher heat, higher acid levels and excessive soot loading found in > # > EGR-equipped engines. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy Duty > Diesel Oil > # > consistently outperforms conventional and synthetic diesel oils for > # > long-lasting performance and protection. > # > AME AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil (AME) > is a > premium > # > diesel oil providing excellent performance in all types of diesel > engines > # > where highly effective control of wear and deposits is vital. Built > with > # > heavy-duty dispersant/detergent additives, its 12 TBN chemistry > neutralizes > # > acids and controls soot thickening from EGR and blow-by to protect > against > # > corrosion, cylinder bore polishing (wear) and varnish/sludge deposits. > AMSOIL > # > AME resists heat and breakdown better than conventional petroleum oils > for > # > long lasting performance and protection. > # > ACD AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30/SAE 30 Diesel Oil (ACD) is > formulated with > premium > # > synthetic base oils that exceed both 10W-30 multi-grade and SAE 30 > # > straight-grade viscosity requirements for outstanding performance in > modern > # > and older diesel engines. Unlike conventional SAE 30 motor oils, > AMSOIL > ACD > # > has a naturally high viscosity index and does not contain paraffin > (wax). > It > # > has a -36B0F pour point and qualifies for SAE 10W, making it an .all > season. > # > multi-grade lubricant with a wide operating temperature range. AMSOIL > ACD > is > # > formulated without viscosity index improvers (VI). This shear stable > # > formulation stops viscosity loss and associated bearing and cylinder > bore > # > wear. AMSOIL ACD contains premium additives with a high 12 TBN to > neutralize > # > acids from blow-by, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) and high sulfur > diesel > # > fuels. It protects against damaging piston deposits, ring sticking and > sludge. > # > > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail. has a new way to see what's up with your friends. > # > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria > l_WhatsNew1_052009 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? ....And I've been having oil pressure problems with my wife's Jaguar XJ6... So I applied the "Ghetto rebuild": a fresh oil change with Castrol 15W50 and a couple bottles of STP oil treatment :). - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:50:14 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? I also agree with Jim (and Alec) on this one, that you're asking for trouble giving an old engine oil other than what it wants. Have a few stories for this too with older engines if you're really bored or really enjoy my blather. I also think that you're chasing the last .01%. For example, when I bought the jetta I have now (yeah, it's a gasser), it had quaker state 20w50 in it. In the hundred thousand miles I've had it, it's gotten that, castrol 20w50, valvoline vr1 20w50, valvoline 10w40 (in the winter, it gets cold here), and when I didn't get down the hill to get oil for it, it got delo 400 15w40 which I get in the five gallon bucket so I always have some around. I got a bigger mileage change fuelling up at different gas stations than I did jacking with oil viscosities. Yes, friction is reduced, but in a high revving engine that screams its guts out to keep up with traffic, it didn't make a difference in mileage exceeding 1 mpg. The car averages 33, which is a pretty mininal change. Now with fuel, for some reason it doesn't like valero or 76 fuel, and rewards purchases at chevron or safeway (heh) with an extra mile and a half to two miles per gallon. I had similar experiences with OM601s and OM603s, as well. I ran synthetic 5w40 instead of delo out of the bucket to stretch the change interval because I drive so freaking much, not really for any other reason. Mileage change was immeasureable, but fuel quality made a ten percent difference easily. While synthetic might provide better lubrication qualities, a lot of older engines are sensitive to viscosity requirements, and usually the upper end rather than the lower end. If you're just looking for lower friction, the 10w30 provides that, but I still think you're better off giving it the viscosity that Nissan specified for it. On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 10:10:54AM -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: > I've gotta go with Jim on this one. I think you should give higher priority > to engine requirements than it appears you are doing. Then choose from among > those suitable viscosities for the oil that provides the best economy. > > I would guess that path starts with 15W-40 and leads to a nice AMSOIL > synthetic 15W-40 marine. > > Alec > > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:18 AM, john wrote: > > > my 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel has over 255,000 miles on it and is doing > > fine with the 5w30. > > > > the tug has about 6,900 hrs and 37,000 miles, leaks and uses no oil... > > one good thing about the military life was it had scheduled maintenance. > > > > I don't think the 5w30 amsoil will be a problem because it's not like dino > > oil... > > > > I'm more interested in someone with more knowledege examining the specs to > > see which of those three would provide the best fuel economy. > > > > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:51:19 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Not to take a cheap shot at british wiring and electronics, but you sure it's not the gauge? :) :) :) On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 08:38:24AM -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: > ....And I've been having oil pressure problems with my wife's Jaguar XJ6... > So I applied the "Ghetto rebuild": a fresh oil change with Castrol 15W50 and > a couple bottles of STP oil treatment :). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? have you ever seen the inside of an engine that has experienced STP? it's going to take a week in a heated solvent tank and a chisel to get that stuff off the block... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 1 May 2009, Jerome Kaidor wrote: # ....And I've been having oil pressure problems with my wife's Jaguar XJ6... # So I applied the "Ghetto rebuild": a fresh oil change with Castrol 15W50 and # a couple bottles of STP oil treatment :). # # - Jerry # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:29:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? > Not to take a cheap shot at british wiring and electronics, but you sure > it's > not the gauge? :) :) :) Hey, I resemble that remark :). *** Reasonably, but not totally sure. I have replaced the sensor for the idiot light and also the ( much more expensive ) sender for the meter. The idiot light comes on - not very often, but just occasionally when stopping going down hill. The indicated oil pressure when cold is 35PSI when driving, maybe 15PSI at idle. When the engine heats up, it goes down to maybe 15-20PSI driving, pretty much zilch at idle ( although the idiot light usually doesn't come on ). I have obtained a mechanical tester gauge to double check the pressure before taking things apart for real. I have already removed, inspected,cleaned and replaced the oil pressure regulator ( AKA overpressure relief valve ). Getting the oil pan out of this thing is a very big deal, because you have to remove the front suspension. You also have to remove the motor mounts and hang the engine from something. In the meantime, I really NEED the car, because my truck has been down with smog/OBDII issues. I have resolved the smog issues and actually obtained a smog certificate, but am waiting for my tags to arrive in the mail from DMV. Meanwhile, although the truck is now completely registered, I can still be pulled over for driving without current tags. That's a separate offense from just not being registered..... So I'm driving the Jag. - Jerry > > On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 08:38:24AM -0700, Jerome Kaidor wrote: >> ....And I've been having oil pressure problems with my wife's Jaguar >> XJ6... >> So I applied the "Ghetto rebuild": a fresh oil change with Castrol >> 15W50 and >> a couple bottles of STP oil treatment :). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:48:53 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:51:19 -0700, Kevin wrote: > Not to take a cheap shot at british wiring and electronics, but you sure > it's not the gauge? :) :) :) ElecTRICS, not "tronics" in the case of old Jaguars. Jerry, Kevin's actually got a point. On the I-6 XK engine OP "problems" can normally be attributed to a bad OP sender, which sits atop the filter block on the intake side of the engine. It is common to "T" a mechanical gauge in there to verify the readings: If both gauges read the same, and the pressure reading is consistently low then shift your focus to the bypass valve on the filter block, it could have something lodged in it preventing it from closing. Often silicone worms from people using the wrong sealants on the cam covers or water pump gasket. You should also open your oil filler cap while the car is idling and check to see if the cam is getting oil. If not, then DO NOT run the engine, for obvious reasons. The best resource for help with these cars is . The forums are accessible via the web and/or email, and have very active XJ, and XK-engine specific groups. Lots of knowledgeable, helpful people (including two folks who hang out here as well. 'Tis a small world indeed.) As for oil, I just use Rotella or Delo and change it often, in both my Diesels and my Jaguar. You scary synthetic cult members just freak me out. ;) - --chuck goolsbee 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD arlington, wa, usa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:32:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? the other thought is the oil pump itself... along with those silicon worms... have seen oil pressure issues in GM and Jeep engines related to the springs in the oil pump for the bypass... you dino oil guys... you're just a bunch of dinosaurs... synthetics are the answer... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 1 May 2009, chuck goolsbee wrote: # On Fri, 1 May 2009 08:51:19 -0700, Kevin wrote: # > Not to take a cheap shot at british wiring and electronics, but you sure # > it's not the gauge? :) :) :) # # ElecTRICS, not "tronics" in the case of old Jaguars. Jerry, Kevin's # actually got a point. On the I-6 XK engine OP "problems" can normally be # attributed to a bad OP sender, which sits atop the filter block on the # intake side of the engine. It is common to "T" a mechanical gauge in there # to verify the readings: # # # # If both gauges read the same, and the pressure reading is consistently low # then shift your focus to the bypass valve on the filter block, it could # have something lodged in it preventing it from closing. Often silicone # worms from people using the wrong sealants on the cam covers or water pump # gasket. # # You should also open your oil filler cap while the car is idling and check # to see if the cam is getting oil. If not, then DO NOT run the engine, for # obvious reasons. # # The best resource for help with these cars is . # The forums are accessible via the web and/or email, and have very active # XJ, and XK-engine specific groups. Lots of knowledgeable, helpful people # (including two folks who hang out here as well. 'Tis a small world indeed.) # # As for oil, I just use Rotella or Delo and change it often, in both my # Diesels and my Jaguar. You scary synthetic cult members just freak me out. # ;) # # --chuck goolsbee # 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD # arlington, wa, usa # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:29:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? john wrote: > > the other thought is the oil pump itself... along with those > silicon worms... *** When I did the head, I used Permatex Hi-Tack spray-a-gasket. No silicone worms. But who knows what other people used in the past? I took apart the oil pressure relief valve assembly - it was perfectly clean. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:43:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jerome Kaidor Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: which oil? Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: > > I remember stories of the Jaguar 6 cylinder oiling problems, did great > on the straights, but oil starvation killed it throughout the 60's on > courses with lots of turns. Jerome, have you been autocrossing on > Saturday mornings while the wife is still sleeping? > *** Not at all. I'm the slug of the family. Stop at the stops & everything. Now my wife on the other hand.... - Jerry "We Dont Do Turns" Kaidor ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3057 **********************************