From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jun 10 08:50:41 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, June 10 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3081 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] mahindra diesels Re: [db] mahindra diesels [db] comparing cj-10a to J10 and XJ, seating and swaps... IFS vs. Solid Axle, wasRe: [db] mahindra diesels Re: IFS vs. Solid Axle, wasRe: [db] mahindra diesels Re: [db] mahindra diesels Re: [db] mahindra diesels Re: [db] mahindra diesels [db] Re: fsj: VW diesel swap in my DJ5? [db] RE: fsj: swaps... and mileage Re: [db] RE: fsj: swaps... and mileage Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] mahindra diesels so are you saying it's NOT superior for road-holding, comfort or reduced unsprung weight? I would think that IFS is better for those things, but not better for off-road clearance and durability... maybe I misunderstood your reply... btw, like the quote: - -- You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. -- Abraham Lincoln -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: # On Tuesday 09 June 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive # from john who wrote: # # > some how they think IFS is superior and more modern than a solid axle. # # Well, it _is_ superior, no ? # # At least for road-holding, comfort, no unnecessary unsuspended weight, etc. # # Cheers, # # Ron. # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:09:11 -0400 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: [db] mahindra diesels On Tuesday 09 June 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive from john who wrote: > so are you saying it's NOT superior for road-holding, comfort or reduced > unsprung weight? I would think that IFS is better for those things, but not > better for off-road clearance and durability... with due respect, M'lud, IFS is _muuuuch_ better for road clearance than rigid axle can be. One example I know very well, the VW Kuebelwagen, with 16" wheels and 5.26x16 tyres, has a road clearance of 27 cm (about 11" for the heathens) while the Jeep, with 6.00 x 16 tyres, had a road clearance of only 16 cm (13.5"); the rigid axle, going straight from wheel centre to wheel centre, and often with a big differential housing bulge in the middle on a 4WD, does not promote road clearance while IFS leaves all that space mostly clear. The only advantage of straight axles are that they are simple and cheap to make, but to the detriment of road holding and comfort. In Europe, even the cheap cars designed seventy years ago had IFS. Cheers, Ron. - -- Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you. -- Aldous Huxley -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: [db] comparing cj-10a to J10 and XJ, seating and swaps... ...at lunch time I looked at a 1999 Cherokee Limited... has a few issues but is priced right... runs nicely... needs 02 sensor, tires, paint on front fender/grille... leather and interior are fine... http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/99-XJ-limited-107k/ALL.html downside, it's not a Diesel... questioning how important that really is to me... - --------------- also looked at an '83 J10 stepside for parts, 360/4spd blown rear axle... body rough, some good parts, but I like being married and plan on being so for more than the existing 34 years, so this won't be following me home, sorry dennis... ;) Jim, here ya go! http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/dennis-1983-j10-stepside-rough/ALL.html while both vehicles aren't likely to follow me home today, I had an ulterior motive for looking at both with tape measure and camera in hand... - ------------------- measured the cab difference between my cj-10a and the J10... http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/COMPARE-cj10a-XJ-J10/compare-J10-CJ10-cab/ALL.html basically 55" versus about 61", 6 more inches in width... doesn't seem like a lot, until you're trying to place your left elbow somewhere... :) - -------------------- also looked at the 4.0L vs. the 3.2L Diesel... http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/COMPARE-cj10a-XJ-J10/compare-XJ-CJ10-engines/ALL.html the xj 4.0 seems a bit smaller, didn't get really accurate readings, looks like about 33" to the radiator from the firewall for the xj and about 36" for the SD33. engine height does look to be different, the 4.0 cowered around 24 while the sd33 towered around 31... again, not really accurate... suspect both dimensions would work with some adjustments... and a large hammer... what does red green say? any tool can be the right tool... ;) might work out... if I really want to do all that work... of course since the xj only weighs in around 3,000lbs a Mercedes Turbo Diesel would be a much better option... :) also going to look at a '90 XJ limited also with the preferred tan leather interior and a factory sunroof... I'm learning that just about any 4x4 Diesel or gas is going to get in the 15 to 20 mpg range... and the prices are close... of course I do have WVO and BioDiesel so that makes Diesel the preferred motivation... one other thing I noticed, the xj had a much harsher ride than the cj-10a!!! tires most likely, but when I hit the little lane bumps you could really feel 'em in the xj, not so much in the cj-10a... of course bumps in the road were treated more respectfully by the XJ... didn't get a chance to road test the J10, wasn't going to sit in that seat. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: IFS vs. Solid Axle, wasRe: [db] mahindra diesels I disagree that IFS has better ground clearance than solid axles... and here's why: they measure the ground clearance at the LOWEST point.. which is that large bulge you referred to... which happens to be made out of cast iron usually and will do a fine job of moving gravel, mud and other organic material out of it's way... allowing the axle tubes which sit MUCH higher up the opportunity to pass without interference. especially near the edges where the ruts usually live... example: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/trail-reports/laborday98/alan2.jpg in an earlier part of this trail the xj's cleared the center mound, but some IFS equipped toyotas got hung up and had to put logs in one part of the trail to make it through... I was giving my buddy from hawaii a tug here, he was running STOCK 205's on this trail with no lift... I was running 30x9.5's with only two inches of lift... the aforementioned 4runners had 31's and 4" of lift... solid axles rule, IFS drools in the mud... impressive specs don't mean much on the trail. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: # On Tuesday 09 June 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive # from john who wrote: # # > so are you saying it's NOT superior for road-holding, comfort or reduced # > unsprung weight? I would think that IFS is better for those things, but not # > better for off-road clearance and durability... # # with due respect, M'lud, IFS is _muuuuch_ better for road clearance than # rigid axle can be. # # One example I know very well, the VW Kuebelwagen, with 16" wheels and 5.26x16 # tyres, has a road clearance of 27 cm (about 11" for the heathens) while the # Jeep, with 6.00 x 16 tyres, had a road clearance of only 16 cm (13.5"); the # rigid axle, going straight from wheel centre to wheel centre, and often with # a big differential housing bulge in the middle on a 4WD, does not promote # road clearance while IFS leaves all that space mostly clear. # # The only advantage of straight axles are that they are simple and cheap to # make, but to the detriment of road holding and comfort. # # In Europe, even the cheap cars designed seventy years ago had IFS. # # Cheers, # # Ron. # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:57:45 -0400 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: IFS vs. Solid Axle, wasRe: [db] mahindra diesels On Tuesday 09 June 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive from john who wrote: > I disagree that IFS has better ground clearance than solid axles... > and here's why: they measure the ground clearance at the LOWEST point.. > which is that large bulge you referred to... which happens to be made > out of cast iron usually and will do a fine job of moving gravel, mud > and other organic material out of it's way... allowing the axle > tubes which sit MUCH higher up the opportunity to pass without > interference. especially near the edges where the ruts usually live.. Said bulge also makes a very good job of perching itself on a rock or a tree stump, leaving you high and dry while the completely flat underside of the Kubelwagen allows it to slide and slither over the sand and mud, with nothing to get stuck into the ground and impede its progress. Which is probably why, in our vintage military vehicles rallies, the Jeeps usually got stuck (and needed pulling out) a lot more than the European counterparts in spite of being 4WD against the VW 2WD; as to the comfort, I have it on good authority that in 1945-46 Germany, the rate of exchange was of two jeeps for a VW Kubelwagen ;-3p Cheers, Ron. - -- If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:32:24 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] mahindra diesels On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI < renaud-at-olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote: > On Tuesday 09 June 2009, my mailbox was graced by a missive > from john who wrote: > > > some how they think IFS is superior and more modern than a solid axle. > > Well, it _is_ superior, no ? Well, yes... if you are only referring to a Citroen 2CV ;-) > > > At least for road-holding, comfort, no unnecessary unsuspended weight, etc. > > Cheers, > > Ron. > -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:10:09 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] mahindra diesels Hmm, looks like Mahindra re-skinned their old jeep. I have looked at the old one up close as they are the low end of the military market. The body was bare, plane jane, fit and finish passably acceptable but utilitarian. The engine was rough, as in poor casting quality, poor fit and finish, very primitive, also had live axles. I would have to take a good look at this to make sure it is not the old in new clothing, especially that engine. It had one redeeming feature - cheap as in under $10K Edward Allen Zylstra wrote: > http://www.mahindrana.com/index.html > > > > Suppose to be in the us soon. They have been selling tractors here for > awhile curious to see how the vehicles do. > > > > Would be nice to have some more diesel options. > > > > Allen > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live^Y: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:50:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] mahindra diesels articles I'm reading start these at the low to mid $20k range, if it were 10k I'd be very interested. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Hmm, looks like Mahindra re-skinned their old jeep. I have looked at the old # one up close as they are the low end of the military market. The body was # bare, plane jane, fit and finish passably acceptable but utilitarian. The # engine was rough, as in poor casting quality, poor fit and finish, very # primitive, also had live axles. # # I would have to take a good look at this to make sure it is not the old in # new clothing, especially that engine. It had one redeeming feature - cheap as # in under $10K # # Edward # # Allen Zylstra wrote: # > http://www.mahindrana.com/index.html # > # > # > # > Suppose to be in the us soon. They have been selling tractors here for # > awhile curious to see how the vehicles do. # > # > # > # > Would be nice to have some more diesel options. # > # > # > # > Allen # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > Windows Live^Y: Keep your life in sync. # > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] Re: fsj: VW diesel swap in my DJ5? love that description kevin... # Not to mention that putting that jetta engine in a delivery jeep with a # torqueflight would only yield acceleration if you got rearended by someone # going over 100. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Kevin wrote: # Be careful. FWD and RWD VW stuff tended to have different bellhousing # patterns. # # Not to mention that putting that jetta engine in a delivery jeep with a # torqueflight would only yield acceleration if you got rearended by someone # going over 100. # # And I thought John was a glutton for punishment :) # # You should be able to flip that volksie pretty easily if it's not clapped # out or rusty. # # On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 09:18:25PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: # > I was just offered a good running (89?) VW Jetta diesel (5 speed) for $1,000 # > which should have the same bell pattern as the Audi 2.0L (and possibly same # > crank flange to take the 904 flexplate) # > I was thinking of offering it along with my '79 postal Jeep for $1500 obo # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] RE: fsj: swaps... and mileage it's more than just bleeding a little at the pump... with a Diesel you have the option of WVO, Diesel or BioDiesel when prices shoot up... longevity of the engine, massive torque, cool sounds coming from under the hood... and the fact that you don't need to stop at the pump nearly as often... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # # # # > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:03:55 -0700 # > From: john # > Subject: Re: fsj: swaps... and mileage # > # > just think if you'd used a VW TDI! # # # I am not too sure about VW quality nowadays..... when the kids shared a new beetle for a year, the trany went at 20K or so. VW picked up the tab.... The fuse panel had some cooked fuses..... # # As said the 4BT makes sense, if you can find one remotely for some change. The next step is to know what are the trany choices for the 4BT? # # You either choke a big chunk of $$$, or bleed a little after every fill up. # # Michel # 74wag # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial _Storage_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:49:07 -0700 From: Eric Ditwiler Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: swaps... and mileage And no spark system to need constant maintenance! Eric Ditwiler On Jun 10, 2009, at 8:41 AM, john wrote: > it's more than just bleeding a little at the pump... > > with a Diesel you have the option of WVO, Diesel or BioDiesel when > prices shoot up... longevity of the engine, massive torque, cool > sounds coming from under the hood... and the fact that you don't > need to stop at the pump nearly as often... ;) > > john > > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > > On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Michel Balea wrote: > > # > # > # > # > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:03:55 -0700 > # > From: john > # > Subject: Re: fsj: swaps... and mileage > # > > # > just think if you'd used a VW TDI! > # > # > # I am not too sure about VW quality nowadays..... when the kids > shared a > new beetle for a year, the trany went at 20K or so. VW picked up > the tab.... > The fuse panel had some cooked fuses..... > # > # As said the 4BT makes sense, if you can find one remotely for > some change. > The next step is to know what are the trany choices for the 4BT? > # > # You either choke a big chunk of $$$, or bleed a little after > every fill > up. > # > # Michel > # 74wag > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage > limits. > # > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial > _Storage_062009 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3081 **********************************