From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 11 14:32:01 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, July 11 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3108 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] OT: FW: Automotive Industry Challenge...for Engineers (fwd) Re: [db] OT: FW: Automotive Industry Challenge...for Engineers (fwd) [db] Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:47:51 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: Re: [db] OT: FW: Automotive Industry Challenge...for Engineers (fwd) On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:36:08 -0700 (PDT), john wrote: > interesting to note that the guy in question actually had a similiar > discussion with members of congress about the 2nd law of thermodynamics... Which was most likely a conversation in jest. - --chuck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] OT: FW: Automotive Industry Challenge...for Engineers (fwd) we can only hope... ;) but how many engineers or scientists, or even technically minded folks do you know that are in politics? have one friend who has been in politics for over a dozen years, refers to a computer monitor as a TV... but to his credit he knows when to ask specialists and experts for input... unlike some of his colleagues... thinking about al gore's vision of polar meltdown with the statue of liberty under water, when ocean levels would only rise at most 16 feet if both caps were to melt... ya gotta wonder... facts aren't always quantified or validated... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, chuck goolsbee wrote: # On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:36:08 -0700 (PDT), john wrote: # > interesting to note that the guy in question actually had a similiar # > discussion with members of congress about the 2nd law of thermodynamics... # # Which was most likely a conversation in jest. # # --chuck # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:27:52 -0700 From: john Subject: [db] Re: 10 cars that brought down detroit.. (fwd) lasikeyes wrote: > I was surprised to see #9: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 The author hit the nail on the head as far as the underlying issues: "How did all this happen? There are plenty of potential culprits: management, the unions, the government." (same thing impacting aerospace, mainly unions, tax structure of local governments and excessive outsourcing in response to the first two...) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31688479/?pg=9#Biz_Detroit_killers_0907 I don't think the author was saying the Jeep Cherokee was bad, in fact, its success seems to have contributed to Detroit's failures... because the competitors missed the mark on matching what the Cherokee could do. And of course fuel economy has to factor in... when you read the next one in line, the Ford Explorer, the author points out issues peculiar to the Explorer, but seems to say all 4x4s are as dangerous, which to some extent is true, but especially so for the Explorer, it's handling characteristics, like that of the Bronco II make this a truly frightening vehicle to operate... I like the looks of both models, but having driven a few I wouldn't own one of them on a bet. 1. Chevrolet Vega - no surprise - aluminum block, very prone to rust, very rare car now... 2. Cadillac Cimarron - no surprise - what a piece of junque, a rebadged Cavalier. author also points out the V8 8-6-4 failure, fails to mention the damage GM did to the Diesel market around the same time with the ill-conceived and poorly executed 5.7L Diesel... by the time GM got the 5.7 working well they had so damaged the entire idea of Diesels in America that we still haven't realized how much better they are than gas. 3. Pontiac Aztek - looks like they stacked two vehicles on top of each other... ugly as sin. 4. Chevy Citation - ho hum 5. Dodge Aires - massive quantity of K-car jokes for Red Green... 6. Ford Fairmont - this was a good car when it came out, simple and clean... but they held on too long to it.. 7. Chrysler TC by Maserati - fix it again tony... didn't detroit learn anything? going full circle with the italians... F-i-a-tony... Will they find a suitable buyer for the Jeep line before they totally destroy this historical marque???? 8. see below 9. Ford Explorer - bad design, bad handling, bad tires... unsuspecting gone turtle types... 10. Ford Taurus - not mentioned, horribly bad handling, would fight you in a curve, and a heater core that requires dismantling the entire car if it leaks, which it will because it's plastic... * 8. Jeep Cherokee *Chrysler also spent its cash buying American Motors, for the purpose of acquiring Jeep. Jeep's Wrangler was a well-known entity, but the surprise was the 1984 Cherokee. Sales of the little 4x4 station wagon grew through the 1980s, as more people began to notice it as an alternative to a car. Here was a potential family vehicle that had some style and some attitude. The four-door version quickly outsold the two-door model, and its popularity overshadowed the Ford Bronco II and Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, which were only available as two door models. Conventional wisdom to this point was that customers who bought what were then called "four-wheel drives" were young and, like sport coupe buyers, were more interested in sporty two-door styling than rear-seat practicality. But families discovered the Cherokee and rivals noticed the trend. Ford quickly prepared the four-door Explorer and the industry raced toward its switch to truck sales because the Cherokee saw unexpected demand for a new product -- the SUV. - -- ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3108 **********************************