From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 12 14:18:56 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, August 12 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3131 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] old Diesels Re: [db] old Diesels Re: [db] RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Re: [db] old Diesels Re: [db] RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? Re: [db] old Diesels Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] old Diesels could be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W116 john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: # Could swear I've seen turbodiesel 116s as far back as 77. # # On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:29:38PM -0700, john wrote: # > actually they had the TD in the '79, 116? that was the first, # > also, that 3.0L I-5 TD set a world endurance speed record in 1975. # > # > I think it averaged 111 mph for 24 hrs... or something like that... it's # > in the Chilton's Book on Diesels... interesting read for Diesel enthusiasts. # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:23:59 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] old Diesels actually, Kevin pointed out as early as '77... would make sense as they did the speed endurance thing in '75 ... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > actually they had the TD in the '79, 116? # *** I stand corrected. # # - Jerry # # # # that was the first, # > also, that 3.0L I-5 TD set a world endurance speed record in 1975. # > # > I think it averaged 111 mph for 24 hrs... or something like that... it's # > in the Chilton's Book on Diesels... interesting read for Diesel # > enthusiasts. # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > # It's a 126. Turbodiesel, the very first. # > # # > # - Jerry # > # # > # # > # > excellent. # > # > # > # > those old 126s are good for something... # > # > # > # > but I wasn't sure if the '81 was a 126 or the earlier model... so I # > # > started looking on my website, # > # > but it's not in one file... # > # > # > # > could use some assistance on identifying the correct model number on # > this # > # > page: # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/mercedes-diesels.html # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > # > # > # Hi, # > # > # # > # > # Yesterday I went out to Stockton for the first time in 2 # > months. My # > # > # '81 300SD was sitting out there covered in dust & cobwebs. I # > pulled # > # > # the silver mylar stuff out of the windows, reconnected the # > battery, # > # > # crossed my fingers and turned the key. # > # > # # > # > # It started instantly and I drove away :). # > # > # Diesel Benz - your best airport car. # > # > # # > # > # - Jerry # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:28:04 -0500 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? I used to get between 21 and 23MPG highway with the SOHC straight six in my 89 300CE And with my heavy foot trying to push Bruiser through the wind (usually around 75MPH-ish), my smart only gets about 35. I think if I were able to keep it below 65, I would approach the rated 41MPG highway. On the plus side, my air conditioning always works. ;-) Alec On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:55 PM, john wrote: > that's highway, my '92 300D has done 39.75 mpg before... typical freeway at speed is only about 36 mpg. > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: > > # I get 19-20 in my '92 400E, without Multi-port, shows the straight 6 > # designs rarely have good fuel distribution or chamber flow. > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john > # Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:45 AM > # To: xj > # Cc: diesel-benz list > # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? > # > # inefficient Diesel engine? > # > # jim, you need to get that exhaust fixed on that big chevy gas guzzler of > # yours, > # I think the fumes are getting to you... :) > # > # agreed, the Renault 2.1L TD was a poor choice, but I loved it > # nonetheless, > # 26 mpg in town and 32 on the freeway fully loaded with the a/c > # running... don't > # know of any XJ without a Diesel engine that could do that... > # > # just how efficient are modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline > # engines these days anyway? > # what percentage of energy are they able to extract from gasoline? 10%? > # 15%? maybe 20%? > # compare that to the energy extracted with a comparable sized Diesel > # engine... even the detuned > # american ones do better than their gasoline counterparts. > # > # Even with Mercedes there is a tremendous difference in efficiency. My > # '91 300D gets 30 mpg in town, > # a friend has a '91 300E... he gets 16 mpg. > # > # john > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > # > # # Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering > # behemoth > # # diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an > # overdrive and EFI > # # to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as > # the same > # # rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that > # are > # # better than average I've seen) > # # For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor > # choice. > # # Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 > # cyl > # # diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just > # dislike > # # inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. > # # I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of > # business, > # # automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. > # # > # # > # # From: Kevin > # # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? > # # > # # Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten > # years. > # # > # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: > # # > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? > # # > > # # > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of > # # > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the > # # > inventor... few realize that... > # # > > # # > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may > # # > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much > # to ask. > # # :) > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:39:53 -0500 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] old Diesels I thought the speed endurance runs were in the cool looking C111 cars. And I'm pretty sure the OM617 turbodiesel came to the US W116 not before 1979 model year, it was created to meet CAFE economy standards, and the rest of the world didn't get turbodiesel S class until the W126, which came here in 81. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_300D claims the non-turbo fiver came to the US in the 1975 W115, the turbo version was developed in 78, and the turbo came to the US in the 1979 W116, which all sounds correct to me. The 126 is bound to still be good for more than just occasional airport car duty. Alec On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:23 PM, john wrote: > actually, Kevin pointed out as early as '77... would make sense as they did the > speed endurance thing in '75 ... > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > > # > actually they had the TD in the '79, 116? > # *** I stand corrected. > # > # - Jerry > # > # > # > # that was the first, > # > also, that 3.0L I-5 TD set a world endurance speed record in 1975. > # > > # > I think it averaged 111 mph for 24 hrs... or something like that... it's > # > in the Chilton's Book on Diesels... interesting read for Diesel > # > enthusiasts. > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > # > > # > # It's a 126. Turbodiesel, the very first. > # > # > # > # - Jerry > # > # > # > # > # > # > excellent. > # > # > > # > # > those old 126s are good for something... > # > # > > # > # > but I wasn't sure if the '81 was a 126 or the earlier model... so I > # > # > started looking on my website, > # > # > but it's not in one file... > # > # > > # > # > could use some assistance on identifying the correct model number on > # > this > # > # > page: > # > # > > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/mercedes-diesels.html > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > # > > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # Hi, > # > # > # > # > # > # Yesterday I went out to Stockton for the first time in 2 > # > months. My > # > # > # '81 300SD was sitting out there covered in dust & cobwebs. I > # > pulled > # > # > # the silver mylar stuff out of the windows, reconnected the > # > battery, > # > # > # crossed my fingers and turned the key. > # > # > # > # > # > # It started instantly and I drove away :). > # > # > # Diesel Benz - your best airport car. > # > # > # > # > # > # - Jerry > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: xj: 96 Jeep ??? speaking of over 30 mpg in a car that will survive most natural disasters and impact with objects larger than a breadbox, my a/c has been working since I last loaded the synthetic (read more expensive) stuff... not sure why, but it's worth the couple extra bucks... anything that gets 20mpg or better is fine by me... especially if it's a Diesel. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Alec Cordova wrote: # I used to get between 21 and 23MPG highway with the SOHC straight six # in my 89 300CE # # And with my heavy foot trying to push Bruiser through the wind # (usually around 75MPH-ish), my smart only gets about 35. I think if I # were able to keep it below 65, I would approach the rated 41MPG # highway. # # On the plus side, my air conditioning always works. ;-) # # Alec # # On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:55 PM, john wrote: # > that's highway, my '92 300D has done 39.75 mpg before... typical freeway at speed is only about 36 mpg. # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # > # > # I get 19-20 in my '92 400E, without Multi-port, shows the straight 6 # > # designs rarely have good fuel distribution or chamber flow. # > # # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # > # Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:45 AM # > # To: xj # > # Cc: diesel-benz list # > # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # > # # > # inefficient Diesel engine? # > # # > # jim, you need to get that exhaust fixed on that big chevy gas guzzler of # > # yours, # > # I think the fumes are getting to you... :) # > # # > # agreed, the Renault 2.1L TD was a poor choice, but I loved it # > # nonetheless, # > # 26 mpg in town and 32 on the freeway fully loaded with the a/c # > # running... don't # > # know of any XJ without a Diesel engine that could do that... # > # # > # just how efficient are modern fuel injected computer controlled gasoline # > # engines these days anyway? # > # what percentage of energy are they able to extract from gasoline? 10%? # > # 15%? maybe 20%? # > # compare that to the energy extracted with a comparable sized Diesel # > # engine... even the detuned # > # american ones do better than their gasoline counterparts. # > # # > # Even with Mercedes there is a tremendous difference in efficiency. My # > # '91 300D gets 30 mpg in town, # > # a friend has a '91 300E... he gets 16 mpg. # > # # > # john # > # # > # ----- # > # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # > # On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # > # # > # # Toyota diesels are efficient compared to most of the lumbering # > # behemoth # > # # diesels in US trucks. Same goes with Nissan SD33T. Adding an # > # overdrive and EFI # > # # to the current motor in an FSJ makes the economy about the same as # > # the same # > # # rig with a diesel (Cummins powered ones are about the only ones that # > # are # > # # better than average I've seen) # > # # For an XJ/MJ, the factory option (Renault 2.1L turbo) was a poor # > # choice. # > # # Not installing a Toyota or Mercedes (or just about any other brand 4 # > # cyl # > # # diesel) drivetrain was senseless when it was done elsewhere. I just # > # dislike # > # # inefficient diesel engines that stink and rattle too much. # > # # I find it interesting that now they came close to going out of # > # business, # > # # automakers found ways of getting a +20% boost in fuel economy. # > # # # > # # # > # # From: Kevin # > # # Subject: Re: xj: 96 Jeep ??? # > # # # > # # Nah. Jim's mentioned SD33s in passing for the better part of ten # > # years. # > # # # > # # On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 09:43:12PM -0700, john wrote: # > # # > wait a minute... did I read this correctly? # > # # > # > # # > Did I see a simply glorious noun in this email??? of # > # # > course it should be capitalized as it's the name of the # > # # > inventor... few realize that... # > # # > # > # # > wow, I think I'm having an effect on Jim... some day he may # > # # > consider buying a green car too... well, that might be a bit much # > # to ask. # > # # :) # > # # # > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:18:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] old Diesels http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=11583 The world records established by the diesel-engined C 111-III: 318k's is about 197.596mph 100 km: 316.484 km/h100 miles: 319.835 km/h500 km: 321.860 km/h500 miles: 320.788 km/h1000 km: 318.308 km/h1000 miles: 319.091 km/h1 hour: 321.843 km/h6 hours: 317.976 km/h12 hours: 314.463 km/h ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Alec Cordova wrote: # I thought the speed endurance runs were in the cool looking C111 cars. # And I'm pretty sure the OM617 turbodiesel came to the US W116 not # before 1979 model year, it was created to meet CAFE economy standards, # and the rest of the world didn't get turbodiesel S class until the # W126, which came here in 81. # # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_300D claims the non-turbo # fiver came to the US in the 1975 W115, the turbo version was developed # in 78, and the turbo came to the US in the 1979 W116, which all sounds # correct to me. # # The 126 is bound to still be good for more than just occasional # airport car duty. # # Alec # # On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:23 PM, john wrote: # > actually, Kevin pointed out as early as '77... would make sense as they did the # > speed endurance thing in '75 ... # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > # > actually they had the TD in the '79, 116? # > # *** I stand corrected. # > # # > # - Jerry # > # # > # # > # # > # that was the first, # > # > also, that 3.0L I-5 TD set a world endurance speed record in 1975. # > # > # > # > I think it averaged 111 mph for 24 hrs... or something like that... it's # > # > in the Chilton's Book on Diesels... interesting read for Diesel # > # > enthusiasts. # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > # > # > # It's a 126. Turbodiesel, the very first. # > # > # # > # > # - Jerry # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > excellent. # > # > # > # > # > # > those old 126s are good for something... # > # > # > # > # > # > but I wasn't sure if the '81 was a 126 or the earlier model... so I # > # > # > started looking on my website, # > # > # > but it's not in one file... # > # > # > # > # > # > could use some assistance on identifying the correct model number on # > # > this # > # > # > page: # > # > # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/mercedes-diesels.html # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > # > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > # > # > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > # > # > # > # > # > # Hi, # > # > # > # # > # > # > # Yesterday I went out to Stockton for the first time in 2 # > # > months. My # > # > # > # '81 300SD was sitting out there covered in dust & cobwebs. I # > # > pulled # > # > # > # the silver mylar stuff out of the windows, reconnected the # > # > battery, # > # > # > # crossed my fingers and turned the key. # > # > # > # # > # > # > # It started instantly and I drove away :). # > # > # > # Diesel Benz - your best airport car. # > # > # > # # > # > # > # - Jerry # > # > # > # # > # > # > # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > # # > # # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3131 **********************************