From owner-diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 1 09:29:48 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, September 1 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3139 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Re: I hate pennzoil [db] administrivia: notes on using this list [db] Biodiesel fun and games Re: [db] Biodiesel fun and games Re: [db] Re: I hate pennzoil Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:00:39 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: [db] Re: I hate pennzoil Unfortunately, this engine displays a lot of chicken and egg sorts of things to it. I'll broaden the scope a bit to make this diesel-related, but as far as pennzoil goes, its old formula had a lot of paraffin in it, and it took them a long time to change from this. This paraffin was the major source of sludging, but truthfully it wasn't a serious problem if the oil was changed regularly AND the car was not subjected to lots of short trips that did not allow the oil to heat up to operating temperature. Since there was truth to the bad rep pennzoil has, just about all of its commercials now show it attacking sludge. The real point of the pictures is to illustrate three points: - the use of sacrificial, high pressure additives (think ZDDP) - what happens when oil breaks down - a potential hazard of switching to a synthetic, using motor flushes, or switching from an oil with a minimal additive package to an oil with an aggressive additive package The first point is something pertinent to diesel engines, since the wrist pins on a diesel are subjected to extreme pressures, similar to the lifters and camshaft on a flat tappet gas engine. This is why high pressure additives are often in high concentration in diesel oil, and explains why it's not an overly great idea to use gasser oil in a diesel (unless it's also compression rated). One of the pictures shows two lifters. On a flat tappet engine, the lifter is supposed to spin as the cam rotates underneath it. These two do not anymore, as evidenced by the wear marks. Obviously, this engine did not have a high enough concentration high pressure additives in it, which caused the cam to go flat. This leads to the second point, changing oil is mainly done to replenish the additive package and remove contaminants suspended in the oil. But we all know the value of keeping good oil in the crankcase, so I won't dwell here. The third point is worth considering. I've heard of a good handful of engines that failed immediately after switching to synthetic, after someone ran a motor flush, or whatever. I know John won't like this part, but think about it for a second - let's say the engine you're working on has this sludge, and you don't know. You do a flush or switch to something with an aggressive additive package, and the sludge dislodges, and gets caught up in the screen on the pickup tube (which happened here, the pickup screen was 70% covered). I don't see good things coming of that. What's the moral of the story? Take care of your ride, and when buying another ride, it's far cheaper to get one that has been taken care of than to save money and get a neglected one. On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Jim Hoffman wrote: > All I've used in gas engines for the past 35 years is Pennzoil. > 100's of > thousands of miles and not a problem. I swear by it. > I'd suspect improper > change intervals, etc. before Pennzoil AND > *I* don't change my oil very > religiously either. So, possibly > there is another cause to the problem? ;) > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:45:02 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: [db] administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:37:00 -0400 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: [db] Biodiesel fun and games Lots of noise here in Paraguay, where oil companies are obligated by law to mix a minimum of 1% of biodiesel in their product: seems the state oil company sent out a batch of diesel where they had, by mistake, mixed 30% of bio; and this just at the start of a cold snap. You can imagine the results, with filling stations out of service due to frozen pipes and filters, cars in the same condition, etc. So to solve the problem the state oil company decided to stop mixing bio, leading to loud complaints from the bio producers, and court action.... Things have improved with a spell of hot weather, and we'll see how this develops. Cheers, Ron. - -- All snakes who wish to remain in Ireland will please raise their right hands. -- Saint Patrick -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Biodiesel fun and games how cold do your winters get there? what elevation are you at? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 1 Sep 2009, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: # Lots of noise here in Paraguay, where oil companies are obligated by law to # mix a minimum of 1% of biodiesel in their product: seems the state oil # company sent out a batch of diesel where they had, by mistake, mixed 30% of # bio; and this just at the start of a cold snap. # # You can imagine the results, with filling stations out of service due to # frozen pipes and filters, cars in the same condition, etc. # # So to solve the problem the state oil company decided to stop mixing bio, # leading to loud complaints from the bio producers, and court action.... # # Things have improved with a spell of hot weather, and we'll see how this # develops. # # Cheers, # # Ron. # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:29:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: I hate pennzoil yes, there is a serious danger of clogging oil galleries when switching from dino oil on a neglected engine to synthetic or any oil with a lot of detergent... however, if the engine has been nasty for a long time and you DON'T flush it and just switch over to synthetic and change the filters often during the initial stages you should be ok. the synthetic will clean it over time but not typically dislodge large chunks, and if it does it will often protect the engine if it's reached those parts at all. if you do flush an engine that is nasty is you probably want to do it a couple of times and watch your oil pressure... of course it doesn't take long to spin a bearing for flatten a cam... oh, as far as cleaning an engine, running a quart of Diesel in the crankcase for about 1,000 miles will also clean things up, not sure I'd use that old trick on a car with an OHC though... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Kevin wrote: # Unfortunately, this engine displays a lot of chicken and egg sorts of things # to it. I'll broaden the scope a bit to make this diesel-related, but as far # as pennzoil goes, its old formula had a lot of paraffin in it, and it took # them a long time to change from this. This paraffin was the major source of # sludging, but truthfully it wasn't a serious problem if the oil was changed # regularly AND the car was not subjected to lots of short trips that did not # allow the oil to heat up to operating temperature. Since there was truth to # the bad rep pennzoil has, just about all of its commercials now show it # attacking sludge. # # The real point of the pictures is to illustrate three points: # - the use of sacrificial, high pressure additives (think ZDDP) # - what happens when oil breaks down # - a potential hazard of switching to a synthetic, using motor flushes, or # switching from an oil with a minimal additive package to an oil with an # aggressive additive package # # The first point is something pertinent to diesel engines, since the wrist # pins on a diesel are subjected to extreme pressures, similar to the lifters # and camshaft on a flat tappet gas engine. This is why high pressure additives # are often in high concentration in diesel oil, and explains why it's not # an overly great idea to use gasser oil in a diesel (unless it's also # compression rated). One of the pictures shows two lifters. On a flat tappet # engine, the lifter is supposed to spin as the cam rotates underneath it. These # two do not anymore, as evidenced by the wear marks. Obviously, this engine did # not have a high enough concentration high pressure additives in it, which # caused the cam to go flat. # # This leads to the second point, changing oil is mainly done to replenish # the additive package and remove contaminants suspended in the oil. But we all # know the value of keeping good oil in the crankcase, so I won't dwell here. # # The third point is worth considering. I've heard of a good handful of engines # that failed immediately after switching to synthetic, after someone ran a # motor flush, or whatever. I know John won't like this part, but think about it # for a second - let's say the engine you're working on has this sludge, and # you don't know. You do a flush or switch to something with an aggressive # additive package, and the sludge dislodges, and gets caught up in the screen # on the pickup tube (which happened here, the pickup screen was 70% covered). # I don't see good things coming of that. # # What's the moral of the story? Take care of your ride, and when buying another # ride, it's far cheaper to get one that has been taken care of than to save # money and get a neglected one. # # On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:15:31AM -0700, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > All I've used in gas engines for the past 35 years is Pennzoil. # > 100's of # > thousands of miles and not a problem. I swear by it. # > I'd suspect improper # > change intervals, etc. before Pennzoil AND # > *I* don't change my oil very # > religiously either. So, possibly # > there is another cause to the problem? ;) # > Jim # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3139 **********************************