From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Thu Dec 24 19:59:49 2009 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, December 25 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3200 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD RE: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:57:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD ok... what's the easiest way of testing the glow plugs on a 1991 300D with a 2.5L TD? I can see a black box on the driver's side firewall, but there is a gizmo of some sort over it and in the way... the glow plugs themselves are kind of hiding behind the IP pump and the intake... I'm hoping it's just a glow plug: Symptoms: turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all cylinders... rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle to wake up all of them and it's smooth as glass like normal and THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. This does confirm to me that all the glow plugs aren't right on my tug, because it tends to smoke a bit on startup too... but there are six cylinders so things just work better. :) anyway, the 300d has been starting even when it's gotten "bitter cold" and down to oh, say 35 deg F this morning... it's even doing better on BioDiesel than the tug... I filled it up with all pump Diesel last night though... Of course there are still five other operating vehicles here so it's not the end of the show if it doesn't start... thanx, and Merry Christmas, remember, the reason for the season is Jesus. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:30:07 -0600 (CST) From: fparker24@verizon.net Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Hi John - Yep, the symptoms that you describe (including the light on the dash) mean one or more bad glow plug. There is a black box on the drivers side of the engine compartment with an awkward side cover that pops off. Take the cover off and unplug the harness to the glow plugs. Put a continuity tester on the harness side and to ground - you will find which one is bad. The harness plug is numbered 1-6. (you will note that 6 is empty) I change them out as they burn out as opposed to all at once. It is possible to change each one of the glow plugs on this engine without taking the intake off but you have to be a bit patient with a few of them. Keep your fingers crossed that it is not #2 because it is the hardest one to do. Good luck! And Merry Christmas! Fred Dec 24, 2009 12:54:48 PM, john@wagoneers.com wrote: ok... what's the easiest way of testing the glow plugs on a 1991 300D with a 2.5L TD? I can see a black box on the driver's side firewall, but there is a gizmo of some sort over it and in the way... the glow plugs themselves are kind of hiding behind the IP pump and the intake... I'm hoping it's just a glow plug: Symptoms: turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all cylinders... rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle to wake up all of them and it's smooth as glass like normal and THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. This does confirm to me that all the glow plugs aren't right on my tug, because it tends to smoke a bit on startup too... but there are six cylinders so things just work better. :) anyway, the 300d has been starting even when it's gotten "bitter cold" and down to oh, say 35 deg F this morning... it's even doing better on BioDiesel than the tug... I filled it up with all pump Diesel last night though... Of course there are still five other operating vehicles here so it's not the end of the show if it doesn't start... thanx, and Merry Christmas, remember, the reason for the season is Jesus. john ----- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us ---------------------------------------------------- -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Thanx Fred! that doesn't sound as bad as I was making it out to be... and yes, I agree, hope it's not #2. I have enough difficult bolts and parts to get to... I'm still trying to get one 10mm bolt off of the radiator shroud on the 2000 Grand Cherokee so I can finish pulling the engine... I think I'm just going to loosen the steering box so I can reach it... but that involves taking the inner fender off which involves taking the front fascia off... which... shoot, I may as well just disassemble the entire stupid jeep... it's like when I replaced the water pump on my 2.5... man, that was a miserable task. I woke up this morning, wife had a problem with the mac... started to fix that, and I heard a Diesel running... thought my son was running his '85 300d... no, it's my wife warming up the '91 300D that I was going to troubleshoot and replace the alarm system in... ;) oh well. Now I know what I need to do, and can sort out the alarm wiring in my heated office with a cup of coffee... (took pictures of the existing alarm box that had the wiring diagram on it. ;) foggy here, 34 degrees, air stagnation warning, meaning no rain, clear weather... :( so many projects... so little time... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 24 Dec 2009, fparker24@verizon.net wrote: # Hi John - # # Yep, the symptoms that you describe (including the light on the dash) # mean one or more bad glow plug. There is a black box on the drivers side # of the engine compartment with an awkward side cover that pops off. Take # the cover off and unplug the harness to the glow plugs. Put a continuity # tester on the harness side and to ground - you will find which one is # bad. The harness plug is numbered 1-6. (you will note that 6 is empty) # # I change them out as they burn out as opposed to all at once. It is # possible to change each one of the glow plugs on this engine without # taking the intake off but you have to be a bit patient with a few of # them. Keep your fingers crossed that it is not #2 because it is the # hardest one to do. # # Good luck! And Merry Christmas! # # Fred # # Dec 24, 2009 12:54:48 PM, john@wagoneers.com wrote: # # ok... what's the easiest way of testing the glow plugs on a # 1991 300D with a 2.5L TD? # # I can see a black box on the driver's side firewall, but there is # a gizmo of some sort over it and in the way... the glow plugs # themselves # are kind of hiding behind the IP pump and the intake... # # I'm hoping it's just a glow plug: Symptoms: # # turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... # wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all # cylinders... # rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle to # wake up all of them # and it's smooth as glass like normal and # THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. # # This does confirm to me that all the glow plugs aren't right on my # tug, because it tends # to smoke a bit on startup too... but there are six cylinders so # things just work better. :) # # anyway, the 300d has been starting even when it's gotten "bitter # cold" and down to oh, say # 35 deg F this morning... it's even doing better on BioDiesel than the # tug... I filled it up # with all pump Diesel last night though... Of course there are still # five other operating # vehicles here so it's not the end of the show if it doesn't start... # # thanx, and Merry Christmas, # remember, the reason for the season is Jesus. # john # # ----- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ---------------------------------------------------- # -------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:02:19 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Been there, done it. That's a bad plug. It doesn't matter which one. You're pretty much committed to removing the intake manifold on this motor, so you're going to replace them all. Be sure to order up a new manifold gasket and turbo connector O ring. This is actually a good thing, because you're going to find the intake jammed with asphalt. Clean it well. Mike Frank At 01:57 PM 12/24/2009, you wrote: >turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... >wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all cylinders... >rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle >to wake up all of them >and it's smooth as glass like normal and >THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:54:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Fred and Mike, Thanx both for the replies, very helpful information. Found that taking the 10mm nuts off the relay allowed me to remove the connector for testing. Looks like I'll be able to exercise Mike's wisdom... guess which one is bad... 20% chance... yep... #2. I can't even see it. So I'll pull the intake and clean things up. My engine is pretty nasty looking anyway, time to do some cleaning. I'll put pictures up later... heading over to my daughter's for Christmas Eve. Tomorrow we're going there for Christmas dinner... but Saturday... all cleared for wrenching... So... just how hard is it to get #2 glow plug out? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 24 Dec 2009, fparker24@verizon.net wrote: # Hi John # Yep, the symptoms that you describe (including the light on the dash) mean one or more # bad glow plug. There is a black box on the drivers side of the engine compartment with # an awkward side cover that pops off. Take the cover off and unplug the harness to the # glow plugs. Put a continuity tester on the harness side and to ground - you will find # which one is bad. The harness plug is numbered 1-6. (you will note that 6 is empty) # # # # I change them out as they burn out as opposed to all at once. It is possible to change # each one of the glow plugs on this engine without taking the intake off but you have to # be a bit patient with a few of them. Keep your fingers crossed that it is not #2 because # it is the hardest one to do. # # # # Good luck! And Merry Christmas! # # # # Fred # # # # # # Dec 24, 2009 12:54:48 PM, john@wagoneers.com wrote: # ok... what's the easiest way of testing the glow plugs on a # 1991 300D with a 2.5L TD? # # I can see a black box on the driver's side firewall, but there is # a gizmo of some sort over it and in the way... the glow plugs themselves # are kind of hiding behind the IP pump and the intake... # # I'm hoping it's just a glow plug: Symptoms: # # turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... # wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all cylinders... # rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle to wake up # all of them # and it's smooth as glass like normal and # THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. # # # This does confirm to me that all the glow plugs aren't right on my tug, # because it tends # to smoke a bit on startup too... but there are six cylinders so things just # work better. :) # # # anyway, the 300d has been starting even when it's gotten "bitter cold" and # down to oh, say # 35 deg F this morning... it's even doing better on BioDiesel than the tug... # I filled it up # with all pump Diesel last night though... Of course there are still five # other operating # vehicles here so it's not the end of the show if it doesn't start... # # thanx, and Merry Christmas, # remember, the reason for the season is Jesus. # john # # # ----- # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:44:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD John wrote > Looks like I'll be able to exercise Mike's wisdom... guess which > one is bad... 20% chance... yep... #2. I can't even see it. *** I KNEW there was a reason to stay with the good ole OM617 cars :). - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD oh come now, it's not that bad... my old om617's would get about 23-26 mpg in town... this one gets 30 IN town... and will blow the doors off of an om617... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 24 Dec 2009, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # John wrote # # > Looks like I'll be able to exercise Mike's wisdom... guess which # > one is bad... 20% chance... yep... #2. I can't even see it. # # *** I KNEW there was a reason to stay with the good ole OM617 cars :). # # - Jerry # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 22:57:24 -0500 From: "FParker" Subject: RE: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Hey John and Mike - I changed #2 on my car last week. Took me about an hour, but some of that time was fumbling around figuring out how to attack it. I'd say 15 minutes - 30 tops including cleaning the tools if I were to do it again today. Disconnect all of the injector lines at the pump and carefully push them aside. If you really want to be anal and not bend them, remove them completely but you just add a lot of time to the job. With the lines removed, you will be able to get a 1/4 inch ratchet and socket in there to remove the wire connector and then the plug. It's tight, but if my big Irish hands can fit in there I would guess most others should have no problem. I know that there is valid wisdom that suggests replacing all of the plugs at the same time, but my experience with two of these cars over the last 7 years has been to only replace the one that is bad. I will tell you that some of the old plugs have out-lasted the newer ones. However, it would be fun to take the manifold off and clean the goo out of it sometime ;-) Good luck - let me know how you make out - Fred - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 6:54 PM To: David Ashby; FParker Cc: diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] glow plugs 124 / 300D 2.5L TD Fred and Mike, Thanx both for the replies, very helpful information. Found that taking the 10mm nuts off the relay allowed me to remove the connector for testing. Looks like I'll be able to exercise Mike's wisdom... guess which one is bad... 20% chance... yep... #2. I can't even see it. So I'll pull the intake and clean things up. My engine is pretty nasty looking anyway, time to do some cleaning. I'll put pictures up later... heading over to my daughter's for Christmas Eve. Tomorrow we're going there for Christmas dinner... but Saturday... all cleared for wrenching... So... just how hard is it to get #2 glow plug out? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 24 Dec 2009, fparker24@verizon.net wrote: # Hi John # Yep, the symptoms that you describe (including the light on the dash) mean one or more # bad glow plug. There is a black box on the drivers side of the engine compartment with # an awkward side cover that pops off. Take the cover off and unplug the harness to the # glow plugs. Put a continuity tester on the harness side and to ground - you will find # which one is bad. The harness plug is numbered 1-6. (you will note that 6 is empty) # # # # I change them out as they burn out as opposed to all at once. It is possible to change # each one of the glow plugs on this engine without taking the intake off but you have to # be a bit patient with a few of them. Keep your fingers crossed that it is not #2 because # it is the hardest one to do. # # # # Good luck! And Merry Christmas! # # # # Fred # # # # # # Dec 24, 2009 12:54:48 PM, john@wagoneers.com wrote: # ok... what's the easiest way of testing the glow plugs on a # 1991 300D with a 2.5L TD? # # I can see a black box on the driver's side firewall, but there is # a gizmo of some sort over it and in the way... the glow plugs themselves # are kind of hiding behind the IP pump and the intake... # # I'm hoping it's just a glow plug: Symptoms: # # turn the key in the morning - NO glow plug light... # wait a little... start and it's starting on less than all cylinders... # rocks and smokes and bucks and coughs... give it a little throttle to wake up # all of them # and it's smooth as glass like normal and # THEN the glow plug light comes on... and stays on for a bit. # # # This does confirm to me that all the glow plugs aren't right on my tug, # because it tends # to smoke a bit on startup too... but there are six cylinders so things just # work better. :) # # # anyway, the 300d has been starting even when it's gotten "bitter cold" and # down to oh, say # 35 deg F this morning... it's even doing better on BioDiesel than the tug... # I filled it up # with all pump Diesel last night though... Of course there are still five # other operating # vehicles here so it's not the end of the show if it doesn't start... # # thanx, and Merry Christmas, # remember, the reason for the season is Jesus. # john # # # ----- # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3200 **********************************