From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Thu Jan 7 16:04:05 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Thursday, January 7 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3210 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] Plan B Re: [db] '87 300TDT exhaust Re: [db] '87 300TDT exhaust [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question - redux Re: [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question Re: [db] block heater question - redux Re: [db] block heater question Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] Plan B at a junction here on the gravel driveway of the snohomish monster carport... thinking that Plan B may be required due to my friend's health, he says he's making progress on superdawg, and I hope he can get it done... but in the meantime, I need something I can haul WVO that will have a/c by summer... I would prefer to have a Diesel 4x4 pickup, prefer automatic - but will consider a manual where an automatic might have issues and lose economy... also would like it with a/c now. Here's some possible scenarios within my current budget and are available: Diesel, 2wd, no a/c: - looking at tomorrow: - - '86 for Ranger turbo Diesel (mitsubishi 2.3) 5spd, 2wd, no a/c 29 mpg - $2600 http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/1535351474.html Diesel, 4wd, a/c, auto: - talked to this lot last week, price was higher... - - '91 F250 - down to $1400... how bad can this really be??? it's Plan B. http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ctd/1537578578.html - - 90 f250 - http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/1541049637.html - - http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/1540117049.html - - '95 suburban... red, tan leather interior, but needs an IP... asking 4k, but 1k is needed for the pump. http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/1538011089.html - he sent pictures, very red... CURRENTLY HAVE - gas: - - '89 XJ limited - gas, 16mpg... not well suited for wvo, but could use the rear carrier as it has the hitch... it's paid for has a/c, automatic and is comfortable... not likely: - - '00 WJ 4.0, gas , 16 mpg... again worse than the xj, no hitch - FOR SALE soon should be finished tomorrow... currently used but not well suited: - - '91 300D - in the trunk... not good for cubies - - '99 WJ - rear carrier or trailer - but not ecomomical... - --------------------- I'm going to look at the '86 2wd 5spd Ranger turbo Diesel at lunch tomorrow... hoping to get it for $2 - $2.3k, I think 2.6 is too much as it has bad paint, 170k on it, but new tires and a fresh IP. I like the size of the ranger, have had one before... I could add a/c and make it a 4x4... not outrageous to do... the F250 would just work... but it's not economical and larger than I need. Friends have warned me about them... :) If I'd known curtis was having health problems I would have looked into adding a/c to the tug... oh well... just another adventure. ;) keep the popcorn fresh... another adventure starts... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:26:10 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] '87 300TDT exhaust Here's the outcome. First of all, most of the components are out of production. Get 'em where you find 'em. I now have enough for two complete systems, which will hopefully last the life of the car. There are two completely different and incompatible exhaust systems for the '87 OM603's, so not only do you have the problem of finding components, all of the components have to be from the same manufacturer. Here's the scoop: 1) The stock exhaust (here in the US) was replaced when they recalled the cylinder head trap filter. The "new" design includes a catalytic converter incorporated into the front pipe. With this design, the front pipe assembly is 4" longer and the center muffler tube is 4" shorter. The muffler flange is square. 2) After market exhausts are or were available from Bosal and Ansa. These incorporated the original design. There is no cat. The front pipe is 4" shorter than the Mercedes part, the center pipe is 4" longer, and the muffler flange is triangular. 3) All manufacturers produced rear mufflers of the same design. AFAIK, the only one still in production is Ansa. 4) You can get a custom made stainless system, end to end, from Timevalve. If I had to do it again, this is what I would do. I'll try to put up some photos. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:05:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] '87 300TDT exhaust there's a welding/muffler shop locally that could build the system... have done many custom exhaust setups doing swaps... affordable... I'm sure there's a local shop that could bend pipes to match your original... I would say stainless isn't required, but then again I'm not in salted road country... I've NEVER had to replace an exhaust system on any of my Diesels and rarely on my gas rigs... actually, NEVER on any fuel injected Jeep I've owned... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, Mike Frank wrote: # Here's the outcome. # # First of all, most of the components are out of production. Get 'em where you # find 'em. I now have enough for two complete systems, which will hopefully # last the life of the car. There are two completely different and incompatible # exhaust systems for the '87 OM603's, so not only do you have the problem of # finding components, all of the components have to be from the same # manufacturer. Here's the scoop: # # 1) The stock exhaust (here in the US) was replaced when they recalled the # cylinder head trap filter. The "new" design includes a catalytic converter # incorporated into the front pipe. With this design, the front pipe assembly # is 4" longer and the center muffler tube is 4" shorter. The muffler flange is # square. # # 2) After market exhausts are or were available from Bosal and Ansa. These # incorporated the original design. There is no cat. The front pipe is 4" # shorter than the Mercedes part, the center pipe is 4" longer, and the muffler # flange is triangular. # # 3) All manufacturers produced rear mufflers of the same design. AFAIK, the # only one still in production is Ansa. # # 4) You can get a custom made stainless system, end to end, from Timevalve. If # I had to do it again, this is what I would do. # # I'll try to put up some photos. # # Mike Frank # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:02:13 -0800 (PST) From: Anaeis N Subject: [db] block heater question This seems like a worry-wart type of question, but better safe than sorry. Is it safe to plug my block heater into a regular indoor outlet? I've heard the rumor that a block heater uses a lot of energy, and I'm worried about causing a problem with the wiring in my apartment building (built in the 50s and not many updates since then). There's no outdoor outlet nearby. And will having a big dose of Cetane Boost in my tank cause any concerns with the block heater? Please school me and ease my worried mind! Thank you, from the frigid Midwest. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 17:13:26 -0600 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] block heater question As thorough as Mercedes engineering was in the 70s and 80s, they would have used a different shaped plug for the US if the block heater needed more power than the average household outlet could comfortably provide. I only ever used the block heater on my 85 300D a couple of times, and I connected it via a really long exterior extension cord, which is a less than ideal setup from a strict electrical engineering perspective, and the extension cord never showed any signs of getting warm, which would be an early indication of a mismatch in power supply and power demand. As for the Cetane Booster, the block heater only directly interacts with engine coolant. Fuel and oil may warm up a little as the warmed coolant warms the engine block, which then warms other things, but there is no direct interaction between block heater and fuel/additives. Plug it in, feel confidently safe in doing so, and enjoy it when the engine starts right up in the morning and can serve warm air to the interior pretty quickly. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 08 smart fortwo, 26K On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Anaeis N wrote: > This seems like a worry-wart type of question, but better safe than sorry. > > Is it safe to plug my block heater into a regular indoor outlet? I've heard the rumor that a block heater uses a lot of energy, and I'm worried about causing a problem with the wiring in my apartment building (built in the 50s and not many updates since then). There's no outdoor outlet nearby. > > And will having a big dose of Cetane Boost in my tank cause any concerns with the block heater? > > Please school me and ease my worried mind! > > Thank you, from the frigid Midwest. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:37:36 -0800 (PST) From: Anaeis N Subject: Re: [db] block heater question Hey, Alec! Thanks for your quick reply. I am so appreciative of your assurance about older Mercedes engineering and your pithy tutorial on block heater/fluid interactions. This particular block heater was installed in 2009, so I don't know if its design is perhaps less thorough than the heaters that came with the early 80s cars, but I will trust your advice and your tip about watching the extension cord for heat. Wishing you a Benz-filled new year! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:57:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] block heater question I think they're about 300Watts so it shouldn't be a problem... if you're worried about your house wiring just plug it into one of those power strips with a 15A breaker on it. :) That way if it exceeds 1500W or whatever they'll hold it'll pop the little breaker instead of burning your house down. and no, the Amsoil Cetane Boost will not cause any issues with the block heater. So, how cold is it? ;) it's 51 degrees in Seattle... a brisk winter day... ;) ROFL. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, Anaeis N wrote: # This seems like a worry-wart type of question, but better safe than sorry. # # Is it safe to plug my block heater into a regular indoor outlet? I've heard the rumor that a block heater uses a lot of energy, and I'm worried about causing a problem with the wiring in my apartment building (built in the 50s and not many updates since then). There's no outdoor outlet nearby. # # And will having a big dose of Cetane Boost in my tank cause any concerns with the block heater? # # Please school me and ease my worried mind! # # Thank you, from the frigid Midwest. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:54:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] block heater question - redux Speaking of block heaters. I have an 87 190 DT and going through my second winter. Here in CT I never needed a heater car started right up after an evening of 0 to single digits. I do wonder how it will behave in Maine where negative number prevale on many days and nights. I currently do not have a block heater but have heard that all 87-93 190Ds came with the heater preinstalled and all one has to do is install the electrical pig tail to connect to an outlet. Can anyone confirm that the block heaters were preinstalled? And if so what is a good source for the pig tail. Thanks, J - -----Original Message----- >From: Anaeis N >Sent: Jan 7, 2010 6:37 PM >To: diesel-benz@digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] block heater question > >Hey, Alec! > >Thanks >for your quick reply. I am so appreciative of your assurance about >older Mercedes engineering and your pithy tutorial on block >heater/fluid interactions. This particular block heater >was installed in 2009, so I don't know if its design is perhaps less >thorough than the heaters that came with the early 80s cars, but I will >trust your advice and your tip about watching the extension cord for >heat. > >Wishing you a Benz-filled new year! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] block heater question it'll be better than the old one... less oxidation so you'll get a more efficient transfer of energy into the coolant system. I'm really surprised my '91 300D doesn't have a block heater... it was delivered to Illinois, has the traction control system, heated seats... weird... but it's started up just fine when it was 15 degrees here... even with biodiesel that choked the tug to death... as far as extension cords if you have a large enough wire in it it'll be fine... I still like the idea of a little power strip with a breaker in it. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, Anaeis N wrote: # Hey, Alec! # # Thanks # for your quick reply. I am so appreciative of your assurance about # older Mercedes engineering and your pithy tutorial on block # heater/fluid interactions. This particular block heater # was installed in 2009, so I don't know if its design is perhaps less # thorough than the heaters that came with the early 80s cars, but I will # trust your advice and your tip about watching the extension cord for # heat. # # Wishing you a Benz-filled new year! # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:58:37 -0800 (PST) From: Anaeis N Subject: Re: [db] block heater question John, It's 16 F here at 6 pm in St. Louis. The other night it was down to 5. Is it even reasonable to expect my '82 diesel to run in this weather, or is it kinder to let it rest until the temp comes up to the freezing point again? Good idea about the powerstrip with the breaker. Cheers! - --- On Thu, 1/7/10, john wrote: From: john Subject: Re: [db] block heater question To: "Anaeis N" Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 6:57 PM I think they're about 300Watts so it shouldn't be a problem... if you're worried about your house wiring just plug it into one of those power strips with a 15A breaker on it. :) That way if it exceeds 1500W or whatever they'll hold it'll pop the little breaker instead of burning your house down. and no, the Amsoil Cetane Boost will not cause any issues with the block heater. So, how cold is it? ;) it's 51 degrees in Seattle... a brisk winter day... ;) ROFL. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, Anaeis N wrote: # This seems like a worry-wart type of question, but better safe than sorry. # # Is it safe to plug my block heater into a regular indoor outlet? I've heard the rumor that a block heater uses a lot of energy, and I'm worried about causing a problem with the wiring in my apartment building (built in the 50s and not many updates since then). There's no outdoor outlet nearby. # # And will having a big dose of Cetane Boost in my tank cause any concerns with the block heater? # # Please school me and ease my worried mind! # # Thank you, from the frigid Midwest. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] block heater question - redux I seem to recall that they are on the passenger side in a freezer plug location, possibly up under by the manifold area. I wonder if my '91 300D has one too... will have to look... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: # Speaking of block heaters. I have an 87 190 DT and going through my second winter. Here in CT I never needed a heater car started right up after an evening of 0 to single digits. # # I do wonder how it will behave in Maine where negative number prevale on many days and nights. # # I currently do not have a block heater but have heard that all 87-93 190Ds came with the heater preinstalled and all one has to do is install the electrical pig tail to connect to an outlet. Can anyone confirm that the block heaters were preinstalled? And if so what is a good source for the pig tail. # # Thanks, # # J # # # -----Original Message----- # >From: Anaeis N # >Sent: Jan 7, 2010 6:37 PM # >To: diesel-benz@digest.net # >Subject: Re: [db] block heater question # > # >Hey, Alec! # > # >Thanks # >for your quick reply. I am so appreciative of your assurance about # >older Mercedes engineering and your pithy tutorial on block # >heater/fluid interactions. This particular block heater # >was installed in 2009, so I don't know if its design is perhaps less # >thorough than the heaters that came with the early 80s cars, but I will # >trust your advice and your tip about watching the extension cord for # >heat. # > # >Wishing you a Benz-filled new year! # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 20:56:45 -0300 From: "Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI" Subject: Re: [db] block heater question On Thursday 07 January 2010, my mailbox was graced by a missive from Alec Cordova who wrote: > which would be an early indication of a mismatch in power supply > and power demand. More likely of a mismatch between extention lead and power demand ? The mismatch between supply and demand would be shown by a bust fuse / tripped contact breaker. Cheers, Ron. - -- The easiest thing of all is to deceive one's self; for what a man wishes he generally believes to be true. -- Demosthenes -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3210 **********************************