From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Sun Jan 10 04:52:37 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, January 10 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3215 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:37:33 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a similar model in years to come. :) - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: > > anybody out there? :) > > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) > > john > > > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: > > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the last of the 124s... > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my reference material > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and counting on the collective... > # > # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 > # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 > # > # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? > # > # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 E300 Diesel? > # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's probably the only > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... > # > # What brings this all on is... > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes it. > # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under the > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... no > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see original > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. > # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I LOVE THE PNW!!! > # > # Here's pictures of the '97: > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ > # > # Vehicle Options > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice > # > # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this point. > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got the '89 Cherokee Limited > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I don't see any > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... unless the collective > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... > # > # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileage=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail > # > # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says 23/30, > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it says mine > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the freeway. > # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that my 2.5 does. > # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... > # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite well. I mean > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance vehicle that I better > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats still work.. > # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a few weeks to > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The traction control computer > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems when it engaged anyway. > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and get the newer one... > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather get rid of the WJ > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and the trailer and > # for those very rare snow days. > # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel tomorrow too... > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg back together. :) > # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... doesn't seem outlandish > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, taking a liking to it. > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be a better ride. > # > # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) > # > # john > # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:54:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel it's beginning to look that way. ;) I searched on line for comments... the gas models were soundly bad mouthed, but the Diesel comments were far less negative... think I found two or three that griped about the electrics... but it was hard to tell as they didn't list the year or the model on the comments... not very accurate, scientific or useful... people generally aren't very technically saavy to begin with and then when you remove critical data like year, model, region, options and such it really doesn't do much good. from what I can tell the engine/trans should be ok... I will fear the climate control system... but not so much. :) probably going over to look at it and test drive it tomorrow... have had shadowfax for what? five, six years now? still doing very well... there are a couple nice features on the newer one... mainly the sunroof and interior lighting and the seats... we'll see how the test drive goes. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than # that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). # You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a # similar model in years to come. :) # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: # > # > anybody out there? :) # > # > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) # > # > john # > # > # > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: # > # > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the last of the 124s... # > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my reference material # > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and counting on the collective... # > # # > # # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 # > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 # > # # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 # > # # > # # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? # > # # > # # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 E300 Diesel? # > # # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's probably the only # > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... # > # # > # What brings this all on is... # > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes it. # > # # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state # > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under the # > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... no # > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see original # > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. # > # # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I LOVE THE PNW!!! # > # # > # Here's pictures of the '97: # > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ # > # # > # Vehicle Options # > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, # > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice # > # # > # # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this point. # > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got the '89 Cherokee Limited # > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I don't see any # > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... unless the collective # > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... # > # # > # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileage=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail # > # # > # # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says 23/30, # > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it says mine # > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the freeway. # > # # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that my 2.5 does. # > # # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... # > # # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite well. I mean # > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance vehicle that I better # > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats still work.. # > # # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a few weeks to # > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The traction control computer # > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems when it engaged anyway. # > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and get the newer one... # > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather get rid of the WJ # > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and the trailer and # > # for those very rare snow days. # > # # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel tomorrow too... # > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg back together. :) # > # # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... doesn't seem outlandish # > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, taking a liking to it. # > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be a better ride. # > # # > # # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) # > # # > # john # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:55:21 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Go ask the mechanics at the dealership what kind of problems they've seen with that model. That's how we learned to avoid the "liftback" C230 coupe/hatchback that Brooke was eyeing a few years back when we thought her Celica was on life support. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: > > it's beginning to look that way. ;) > > I searched on line for comments... the gas models were soundly bad mouthed, > but the Diesel comments were far less negative... think I found two or three > that griped about the electrics... but it was hard to tell as they didn't > list the year or the model on the comments... not very accurate, scientific > or useful... people generally aren't very technically saavy to begin with > and then when you remove critical data like year, model, region, options > and such it really doesn't do much good. > > from what I can tell the engine/trans should be ok... I will fear the climate > control system... but not so much. :) > > probably going over to look at it and test drive it tomorrow... have had > shadowfax for what? five, six years now? still doing very well... there > are a couple nice features on the newer one... mainly the sunroof and interior > lighting and the seats... we'll see how the test drive goes. > > john > > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than > # that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). > # You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a > # similar model in years to come. :) > # > # -bkc > # Lynnwood, WA > # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT > # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] > # > # > # On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: > # > > # > anybody out there? :) > # > > # > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: > # > > # > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the last of the 124s... > # > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my reference material > # > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and counting on the collective... > # > # > # > # > # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # > # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 > # > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 > # > # > # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 > # > # > # > # > # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? > # > # > # > # > # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 E300 Diesel? > # > # > # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's probably the only > # > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... > # > # > # > # What brings this all on is... > # > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes it. > # > # > # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state > # > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under the > # > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... no > # > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see original > # > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. > # > # > # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I LOVE THE PNW!!! > # > # > # > # Here's pictures of the '97: > # > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ > # > # > # > # Vehicle Options > # > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, > # > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice > # > # > # > # > # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this point. > # > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got the '89 Cherokee Limited > # > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I don't see any > # > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... unless the collective > # > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... > # > # > # > # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileage=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail > # > # > # > # > # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says 23/30, > # > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it says mine > # > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the freeway. > # > # > # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that my 2.5 does. > # > # > # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... > # > # > # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite well. I mean > # > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance vehicle that I better > # > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats still work.. > # > # > # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a few weeks to > # > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The traction control computer > # > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems when it engaged anyway. > # > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and get the newer one... > # > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather get rid of the WJ > # > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and the trailer and > # > # for those very rare snow days. > # > # > # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel tomorrow too... > # > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg back together. :) > # > # > # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... doesn't seem outlandish > # > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, taking a liking to it. > # > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be a better ride. > # > # > # > # > # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) > # > # > # > # john > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:47:10 -0500 From: "FParker" Subject: RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel I test drove one of those a few years ago and just didn't feel the love. I'll be interested in your impression. Fred - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:55 AM To: Bruce Caruthers Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel it's beginning to look that way. ;) I searched on line for comments... the gas models were soundly bad mouthed, but the Diesel comments were far less negative... think I found two or three that griped about the electrics... but it was hard to tell as they didn't list the year or the model on the comments... not very accurate, scientific or useful... people generally aren't very technically saavy to begin with and then when you remove critical data like year, model, region, options and such it really doesn't do much good. from what I can tell the engine/trans should be ok... I will fear the climate control system... but not so much. :) probably going over to look at it and test drive it tomorrow... have had shadowfax for what? five, six years now? still doing very well... there are a couple nice features on the newer one... mainly the sunroof and interior lighting and the seats... we'll see how the test drive goes. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than # that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). # You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a # similar model in years to come. :) # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: # > # > anybody out there? :) # > # > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) # > # > john # > # > # > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: # > # > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the last of the 124s... # > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my reference material # > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and counting on the collective... # > # # > # # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 # > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 # > # # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 # > # # > # # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? # > # # > # # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 E300 Diesel? # > # # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's probably the only # > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... # > # # > # What brings this all on is... # > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes it. # > # # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state # > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under the # > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... no # > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see original # > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. # > # # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I LOVE THE PNW!!! # > # # > # Here's pictures of the '97: # > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ # > # # > # Vehicle Options # > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, # > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice # > # # > # # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this point. # > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got the '89 Cherokee Limited # > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I don't see any # > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... unless the collective # > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... # > # # > # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11 041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileag e=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail # > # # > # # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says 23/30, # > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it says mine # > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the freeway. # > # # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that my 2.5 does. # > # # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... # > # # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite well. I mean # > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance vehicle that I better # > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats still work.. # > # # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a few weeks to # > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The traction control computer # > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems when it engaged anyway. # > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and get the newer one... # > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather get rid of the WJ # > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and the trailer and # > # for those very rare snow days. # > # # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel tomorrow too... # > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg back together. :) # > # # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... doesn't seem outlandish # > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, taking a liking to it. # > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be a better ride. # > # # > # # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) # > # # > # john # > # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3215 **********************************