From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Sun Jan 10 15:45:30 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Sunday, January 10 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3218 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 12:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel I don't know if we'll make it over there today or not... my wife has taken to reorganizing Christmas storage items under the stairs... :) I may test drive it during lunch... but I found a '95 E300 with a potentially weak trans for a LOT less... same color scheme... clean looking... we'll see... if the guy will ever answer his phone or email... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, FParker wrote: # I test drove one of those a few years ago and just didn't feel the love. # I'll be interested in your impression. # # Fred # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] # On Behalf Of john # Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:55 AM # To: Bruce Caruthers # Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel # # it's beginning to look that way. ;) # # I searched on line for comments... the gas models were soundly bad # mouthed, # but the Diesel comments were far less negative... think I found two or # three # that griped about the electrics... but it was hard to tell as they # didn't # list the year or the model on the comments... not very accurate, # scientific # or useful... people generally aren't very technically saavy to begin # with # and then when you remove critical data like year, model, region, options # and such it really doesn't do much good. # # from what I can tell the engine/trans should be ok... I will fear the # climate # control system... but not so much. :) # # probably going over to look at it and test drive it tomorrow... have had # shadowfax for what? five, six years now? still doing very well... there # are a couple nice features on the newer one... mainly the sunroof and # interior # lighting and the seats... we'll see how the test drive goes. # # john # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # # # I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than # # that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). # # You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a # # similar model in years to come. :) # # # # -bkc # # Lynnwood, WA # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # # # # On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: # # > # # > anybody out there? :) # # > # # > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) # # > # # > john # # > # # > # # > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: # # > # # > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the # last of the 124s... # # > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my # reference material # # > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and # counting on the collective... # # > # # # > # # # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # # # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 # # > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 # # > # # # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 # # > # # # > # # # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? # # > # # # > # # # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 # E300 Diesel? # # > # # # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's # probably the only # # > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... # # > # # # > # What brings this all on is... # # > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes # it. # # > # # # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state # # > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under # the # # > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... # no # # > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see # original # # > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. # # > # # # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I # LOVE THE PNW!!! # # > # # # > # Here's pictures of the '97: # # > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ # # > # # # > # Vehicle Options # # > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, # Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear # Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power # Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, # Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped # Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, # Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, # # > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These # Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no # dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice # # > # # # > # # # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this # point. # # > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got # the '89 Cherokee Limited # # > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I # don't see any # # > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... # unless the collective # # > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... # # > # # # > # # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11 # 041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileag # e=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail # # > # # # > # # # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says # 23/30, # # > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it # says mine # # > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the # freeway. # # > # # # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that # my 2.5 does. # # > # # # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... # # > # # # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite # well. I mean # # > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance # vehicle that I better # # > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats # still work.. # # > # # # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a # few weeks to # # > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The # traction control computer # # > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems # when it engaged anyway. # # > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and # get the newer one... # # > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather # get rid of the WJ # # > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and # the trailer and # # > # for those very rare snow days. # # > # # # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel # tomorrow too... # # > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg # back together. :) # # > # # # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... # doesn't seem outlandish # # > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, # taking a liking to it. # # > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be # a better ride. # # > # # # > # # # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) # # > # # # > # john # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:20:09 -0500 From: "FParker" Subject: RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel It's not that it was a bad car - I just didn't like driving it. It was driving position or something. I was happy to get back into my 124 for the drive home. It was a nice car - black on black. I seem to remember it was a lot of money too - 20K or so. They have really dropped in value in the last few years. Glad I didn't bite at the time but could be a good score now. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:59 PM To: FParker Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: RE: [db] '97 E300 Diesel I don't know if we'll make it over there today or not... my wife has taken to reorganizing Christmas storage items under the stairs... :) I may test drive it during lunch... but I found a '95 E300 with a potentially weak trans for a LOT less... same color scheme... clean looking... we'll see... if the guy will ever answer his phone or email... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, FParker wrote: # I test drove one of those a few years ago and just didn't feel the love. # I'll be interested in your impression. # # Fred # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] # On Behalf Of john # Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:55 AM # To: Bruce Caruthers # Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel # # it's beginning to look that way. ;) # # I searched on line for comments... the gas models were soundly bad # mouthed, # but the Diesel comments were far less negative... think I found two or # three # that griped about the electrics... but it was hard to tell as they # didn't # list the year or the model on the comments... not very accurate, # scientific # or useful... people generally aren't very technically saavy to begin # with # and then when you remove critical data like year, model, region, options # and such it really doesn't do much good. # # from what I can tell the engine/trans should be ok... I will fear the # climate # control system... but not so much. :) # # probably going over to look at it and test drive it tomorrow... have had # shadowfax for what? five, six years now? still doing very well... there # are a couple nice features on the newer one... mainly the sunroof and # interior # lighting and the seats... we'll see how the test drive goes. # # john # # # # ----- # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # # # I'm here. But I don't know anything about that model, other than # # that I really like its styling (and did when it first came out). # # You can be the guinea pig for it so I know whether to consider a # # similar model in years to come. :) # # # # -bkc # # Lynnwood, WA # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # # # # On Sun Jan 10, 2010, John Meister wrote: # # > # # > anybody out there? :) # # > # # > ok, so it's like 3am on the east coast... :) # # > # # > john # # > # # > # # > On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, john wrote: # # > # # > # looks like the n/a 3.0L Diesel used in the '97 was used in the # last of the 124s... # # > # the earlier I-6 was a different model. What's funny is all of my # reference material # # > # only goes up to about '95... so I'm flying blind here and # counting on the collective... # # > # # # > # # # > # Model Year Chassis # Engine # # # > # E300D 1995 124.13 606.91 # # > # E300D 1996-97 210.02 606.91 # # > # # # > # 300D Turbo 1987 124.13 603.96 # # > # # # > # # # > # Any alarm bells going off at this point? Kevin? Mike? Richard? # # > # # # > # # # > # IS THERE ANY REASON TO WORRY ABOUT THE ENGINE OR TRANS ON A 1997 # E300 Diesel? # # > # # # > # this thing does come with dual zone climate control... that's # probably the only # # > # high risk thing I can find on this thing... # # > # # # > # What brings this all on is... # # > # my wife just saw the pictures of this '97 on CL and like me likes # it. # # > # # # > # We haven't driven it yet... 154,000 miles, one previous WA state # # > # owner who was a real estate agent... the car is spotless under # the # # > # hood and there are no real signs of any aggressive detailing... # no # # > # indications of degreaser or even a hose out... I can see # original # # > # road dust under the hood and in the door jambs. # # > # # # > # Absolutely no rust anywhere, but that goes without saying. I # LOVE THE PNW!!! # # > # # # > # Here's pictures of the '97: # # > # http://wagoneers.com/tmp/E300-97/ # # > # # # > # Vehicle Options # # > # Home Link, Auto Climate Control, Dual Zone Climate Control, # Tachometer, Leather/Leatherette, Cup Holder, Fog/Driving Lamps, Rear # Defroster, Tinted Glass, Sunroof, Anti-lock Brakes, Alloy Wheels, Power # Driver's Seat, Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Passenger Seat, # Power Mirrors, Center Armrest, Rear Shoulder Harness, Leather Wrapped # Steering Wheel, Satellite Radio, Interior Wood Trim, Console, CD Player, # Tilt Steering Wheel, AM/FM Radio, Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, # # > # Diesel, Loaded mint condition! Will not find one nicer! These # Mercedes Diesels are known to go 300k + easy! And this only has 164k no # dissapointments 35+ mpg!AMG wheels very very nice # # > # # # > # # # > # I checked book value on Shadowfax, he's worth around $4k at this # point. # # > # Saw another 300D 2.5 on CL for about that much. I've also got # the '89 Cherokee Limited # # > # and the '00 WJ to sell... so we should be fine... if we like it I # don't see any # # > # reason why I shouldn't go to the credit union on Monday... # unless the collective # # > # has good reasons for us to avoid this one... # # > # # # > # # http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport/1991_Mercedes-Benz_300D_11 # 041_Retail_Excellent.aspx?SelectionHistory=11041|32230|98208|0|0|&Mileag # e=260000&PriceTypePath=Retail # # > # # # > # # # > # What's interesting to note is that the mpg rating on the '97 says # 23/30, # # > # but others have reported higher... then I looked at KBB and it # says mine # # > # is rated at 23/30 and I get 30 in town and as much as 39 on the # freeway. # # > # # # > # Noticed that the '97 has the same style high pressure pump that # my 2.5 does. # # > # # # > # I didn't see any elaborate sensors going to the engine... # # > # # # > # Wasn't really looking for a new Diesel Benz, ours is doing quite # well. I mean # # > # one glow plug in what? 4 years? that's a high maintenance # vehicle that I better # # > # get rid of. ;) My benz is 19 years old... the heated seats # still work.. # # > # # # > # The only issues with the car are the a/c systems leaks down in a # few weeks to # # > # a month... easily charged back up with a can of r134. The # traction control computer # # > # departed years ago, but all the better it only caused problems # when it engaged anyway. # # > # Otherwise it's doing splendidly... I think we should keep it and # get the newer one... # # > # but my wife keeps reeling me back into reality. :) I'd rather # get rid of the WJ # # > # and have two Benz and keep an old Jeep around for hauling WVO and # the trailer and # # > # for those very rare snow days. # # > # # # > # keep the popcorn fresh... going to look at that Toyota Diesel # tomorrow too... # # > # even though Curtis claims he's going to be able to get Superdawg # back together. :) # # > # # # > # I can see us with SuperDawg, the '97 Benz and the '99 WJ... # doesn't seem outlandish # # > # or anything... I wouldn't mind keeping the white '89 XJ too, # taking a liking to it. # # > # In fact I think the Toyota may be avoided because the XJ will be # a better ride. # # > # # # > # # # > # heading out to put the window motor in the '89 XJ now... :) # # > # # # > # john # # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:01:16 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel A lot of these problems are gas-engine only. I think the V6 was a shoehorn job in a chassis that was originally intended for a straight 6. The engine sits a bit too far back, and there's a lot of stuff towards the rear that's hard to service, including the starter, crank sensor, exhaust, manifold flanges and spark plugs. Not like Mercedes to forget the needs of the service department. Beware of body integrity problems and rust. The transmission is electronically adaptive to your driving style, five speeds, and as complicated as German engineering gets. See if you can get a good used one for less than what you're paying for the car. There are people who love the 210's, I'm not among them. Mike Frank At 01:02 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote: >Mike, > >looking through your list and trying to identify >the Diesel related issues and the basic car issues. I think the >engine will be fine, however there is a 98 e300 for sale for $1500 >here, bad trans. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:39:58 -0600 From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" Subject: Re: [db] '97 E300 Diesel Tell me more about this car with the bad trans, that is, if you dont want it. john wrote: > Mike, > > looking through your list and trying to identify > the Diesel related issues and the basic car issues. I think the engine will be fine, however there is a 98 e300 for sale for $1500 here, bad trans. > > so, going over your list I noticed on this > car: > > cloudy/foggy headlamps > aftermarket stereo w/ benz cd changer still in > amg rims, not stock > > so basically the issues that could remain with > this car are the headlight covers, the wonderful > wonky weather world on the dash and the > transmission... and rear end and brakes. > > > I wonder if a test drive will reveal the > lack of love that Fred felt too. > > sounds like I should check out that 98 with > 300k on it and the bad trans. > > what other trans would fit? > > thanx again Mike, very helful. I will > look but with the shields at maximum. :) > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2010, Mike Frank wrote: > > # The motor is probably a gem. But everything else > # about the W210's was awful. Here's a list of the > # stuff that's gone wrong for me on my '99 E320T > # gasser: > # > # - Sensor failures: crank position, oxygen, air > # mass > # - Catalytic converter failures, Mercedes weaseled > # out of the warranty. Insult to injury: the > # manifold nuts were so rusted up, the manifold > # needed threaded inserts. I had to have the dealer > # do these, because they have some magic trick for > # installing them without lifting the motor. > # - Wiring harness: front fog light harnesses tend > # to rot out. A friend of mine had his dashborad > # harness spontaneously combust > # - Rear differential failed (4 matic). > # - Radio sucks. This is partly due to poor speaker > # placement, partly due to the electronic antenna > # - Rapid brake wear > # - Rapid tire wear > # - Rust, even for the salty northeast, a lot of > # rust > # - Cloudy headlight lenses, apparently chronic with > # this model > # - Mysterious freon leak. It will be fine for a > # long time, then it will all be gone without a > # trace > # - Alternator > # - Weird transmission hunting, fixed by a software > # upgrade (does software break?) > # - Broken wheel bolts. If you get this car, switch > # to the older 124 wheel bolts. Immediately. Not as > # pretty, but I've had to drill out 8 of 20 of the > # originals. > # - "Bulb failure" indicator on most of the time. > # - If the former owner has used anything but > # synthetic, or has played with extending the oil > # changes after the change oil indication is lit, > # the engine may be sludged up. There was a > # successful class action suit against Mercedes > # because for a few years, they forgot to mention > # that the car required synthetic. > # - I've had a tie rod failure or two, but this > # actually seems better than the earlier cars. > # - Window regulator failure is chronic with this > # model > # - Automatic climate controls are wonky. Don't ask > # for a better explanation, it would take too long. > # Make sure you replace the cabin filters regularly > # - Starter failure. Replacing the starter was > # something only the dealer would attempt > # - Diagnostic software is VERY expensive. I'd have > # to spend more on the software than I spend to keep > # the 124 on the road for a year. > # > # I've never had an engine problem, so it may be > # that this list would compare well with an E300D. > # > # Remember that I've owned this from new. Not > # abused, it's barely used. It's a beautiful car. > # It's a pleasant drive, if not as crisp as the > # older cars. But it's been a heartbreaker. > # > # Mike Frank > # > # > > - -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3218 **********************************