From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Thu Jan 14 22:50:16 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, January 15 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3225 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] it's alive... [db] OT: Gasser Question. Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. [db] Jeep brochures (fwd) [db] administrivia: notes on using this list Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] it's alive... the '89 xj hits the road... got a quote to fix the sunroof/headliner for only $225... :) http://fotomeister.us/2010/01-Jan-14-XJ-gets-title/ALL.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: [db] OT: Gasser Question. OK, It's not a Benz, it's not a diesel, but I'm at my wits end with this thing: - ----------- My 99 Astro has been giving a few engine problems, which may or may not have the same cause. 1. A P0155 code. This means "Bad Oxygen sensor heater". It is unaffected by replacing the oxygen sensor. 2. Stumbling at speed. Clears out on long trips. I suspected bad injectors, and replaced them all with the improved "MFI" system. No effect. I also replaced the intake manifold gasket, which is known to be eaten by "Dex-Cool". No effect. I also replaced the sparkplugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, and ignition coil. 3. No-start. Happens mostly on cold wet days, especially when the car has been sitting without for multiple days. You crank it, the engine coughs and sputters for up to 30 seconds, then stops. After a while, it starts up and runs normally except for #1 and #2. During the "no-start" condition, fuel pressure is normal at 60PSI. 4. On our last trip, the car lost power on the freeway, and soon would not go any faster than 45MPH. We had to call for a 50-mile tow to get it home. Luckily we have the deluxe AAA! Once home, I stuck on a sc and read the following codes: P0155 ( as usual ) P0300 ( misfires ) P0101 ( a MAF error ) The MAF output looked pretty normal on my oscilloscope, although I did not measure its frequency. I drove the car around the neighborhood, it would go no faster than 10MPH up hill! This was with a fuel pressure gauge connected, the reading was a solid 60PSI. ( When the car is operating normally, I see 60PSI while starting, 55 PSI running ). I just invested in a better OBDII scan tool, one that can read the PIDs. It came in yesterday, so I just went out to the car to read what I could read. Unfortunately, the car won't start. Readings are as follows: MAF ( pounds per minute ) - about 0.5, jumping mostly between 0.2 and 0.5, with a few spikes as high as 1.3. As far as I can tell, this is reasonably normal for an engine that's just being cranked. TPS - zero. When I hit the throttle, it smoothly ramps up to 100. Actually, I just replaced this one. Intake Temperature ( F ) - flat as a board at 64.4. OK, it's a cool day. Intake Manifold Pressure( PSI ) - varies between 14.6 and 13.6. Actually, just a few spikes down to 13.6, mostly it's 14.0 to 14.6. Hmm, doesn't sound like much vacuum to me. Maybe I can stick a vacuum gauge on this thing. I seem to remember seeing at least 10 inches of mercury on "normal" cars while cranking. Maybe my memory is bad... Vacuum leak? Bad PCV valve? Engine Load ( % ) 0 to 7 Short term fuel trim bank1(%) flat lined at zero ( actually, all the fuel trims are zero ) Engine Coolant Temp ( F ) - 53.6 Engine RPM - looks like about 150RPM while cranking. The fuel pressure is 60PSI, and there IS spark. I know that if I keep trying, it will ultimately start and run. But I'd just as soon troubleshoot the no-start before moving on to the "no-power" problem. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:30:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. wow... have you talked to any experienced techs at the dealership? maybe buy 'em a latte or beer or lunch or all of the above... when I hit a tough one like this I go looking for experts... gm has a lot of cars out there... surely someone will know... excellent knowledge transfer here... even though OT, helpful to all!!! good stuff! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # OK, # It's not a Benz, it's not a diesel, but I'm at my wits end with this thing: # # ----------- # # # My 99 Astro has been giving a few engine problems, which may or may # not have the same cause. # # 1. A P0155 code. This means "Bad Oxygen sensor heater". It is # unaffected by replacing the oxygen sensor. # # 2. Stumbling at speed. Clears out on long trips. I suspected bad # injectors, and replaced them all with the # improved "MFI" system. No effect. I also replaced the intake manifold # gasket, which is known to be eaten by "Dex-Cool". No effect. I also # replaced the sparkplugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, and ignition coil. # # 3. No-start. Happens mostly on cold wet days, especially when the car # has been sitting without for multiple days. You crank it, the engine # coughs and sputters for up to 30 seconds, then stops. After a while, it # starts up and runs normally except for #1 and #2. During the "no-start" # condition, fuel pressure is normal at 60PSI. # # 4. On our last trip, the car lost power on the freeway, and soon would # not go any faster than # 45MPH. We had to call for a 50-mile tow to get it home. Luckily we have # the deluxe AAA! # Once home, I stuck on a sc and read the following codes: # P0155 ( as usual ) # P0300 ( misfires ) # P0101 ( a MAF error ) # # The MAF output looked pretty normal on my oscilloscope, although I did # not measure its frequency. # # # I drove the car around the neighborhood, it would go no # faster than 10MPH up hill! This was with a fuel pressure gauge connected, # the # reading was a solid 60PSI. ( When the car is operating normally, I see # 60PSI while # starting, 55 PSI running ). # # I just invested in a better OBDII scan tool, one that can read the # PIDs. It came in yesterday, so I just went out to the car to read what # I could read. # # Unfortunately, the car won't start. Readings are as follows: # # MAF ( pounds per minute ) - about 0.5, jumping mostly between 0.2 and 0.5, # with a few spikes as high as 1.3. As far as I can tell, this is # reasonably normal for an engine that's just being cranked. # # TPS - zero. When I hit the throttle, it smoothly ramps up to 100. # Actually, I just replaced this one. # # Intake Temperature ( F ) - flat as a board at 64.4. OK, it's a cool day. # # Intake Manifold Pressure( PSI ) - varies between 14.6 and 13.6. Actually, # just a few spikes down to 13.6, mostly it's # 14.0 to 14.6. Hmm, doesn't sound like much vacuum # to me. Maybe I can stick a vacuum gauge on this thing. I seem to # remember seeing at least 10 inches of mercury on "normal" cars while # cranking. Maybe my memory is bad... Vacuum leak? Bad PCV valve? # # Engine Load ( % ) 0 to 7 # # Short term fuel trim bank1(%) flat lined at zero # ( actually, all the fuel trims are zero ) # # Engine Coolant Temp ( F ) - 53.6 # # Engine RPM - looks like about 150RPM while cranking. # # The fuel pressure is 60PSI, and there IS spark. # # I know that if I keep trying, it will ultimately start and run. But I'd # just as soon troubleshoot the no-start before moving on to the "no-power" # problem. # # - Jerry # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:01:47 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. John's right, the best bet is to have the codes read by a Mercedes dealer. An OBDII reader can read some of the codes, but the Merc software is needed to reset them and to get to Merc specific tunables. I had similar problems with my '99 E320. The O2 sensor proved to be a huge mess. In my case, the problem was caused by defective cats. So I had to replace four sensors and two cats, don't ask the cost. I also had something similar to your stumbling problem. The symptoms were: - - Car would run fine on the highway, but stall dead on the off ramp. Wait by the roadside for half an hour or so, and the car would start up and run normally. - - Rough running at low speeds. - - Failure to start, usually in hot weather. The tach would jump to the pin, then the engine would stall dead. Come back to it later, and everything would be fine. This problem was caused by a crank position sensor. Replaced it, and the engine couldn't be sweeter. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:37:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. > John's right, the best bet is to have the codes read by a Mercedes > dealer. An OBDII reader can read some of the codes, but the Merc > software is needed to reset them and to get to Merc specific tunables. > *** Well, I don't think the Mercedes dealer will have much specific to say about my Chevy :). The Chevy dealer could do it, but they charge over $200 an hour! At this point, I don't think it's anything super subtle: * The car won't start * It has good spark * It has good fuel pressure. * The problem comes and goes, so it's not any basic mechanical fault. * The fuel injectors are new. * Therefore, the ECU is not properly delivering fuel pulses. ( I could verify this with an oscilloscope if I'm unsure, but that's what I'm betting on) * The Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor is saying that there is almost no vacuum. I'm going to focus on that. Maybe a bad sensor, maybe a big fat vacuum leak.... A sensor costs $70, and I'm REALLY tired of shotgunning this thing. I crave logical troubleshooting. So does my pocketbook :). * Doubt that it's the O2 sensors - Cars start all the time without O2 sensors - they have to because O2 sensors don't work at all until they heat up. I wonder if the MAP sensor can be tested by hooking it up to a MityVac? - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:17:38 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] OT: Gasser Question. Jerry It sure keeps sounding like the crankshaft sensor is wonky or there are metal filings and grease between the tip of the sensor and the reluctor wheel (or gear that acts as such) Check this sensor all the way from the actual sensor back to the point where it connects to the ECU. Edward Jerry Kaidor wrote: >> John's right, the best bet is to have the codes read by a Mercedes >> dealer. An OBDII reader can read some of the codes, but the Merc >> software is needed to reset them and to get to Merc specific tunables. >> >> > *** Well, > > I don't think the Mercedes dealer will have much specific to say about > my Chevy :). > > The Chevy dealer could do it, but they charge over $200 an hour! > > At this point, I don't think it's anything super subtle: > > * The car won't start > * It has good spark > * It has good fuel pressure. > * The problem comes and goes, so it's not any basic mechanical fault. > * The fuel injectors are new. > * Therefore, the ECU is not properly delivering fuel pulses. > ( I could verify this with an oscilloscope if I'm unsure, but that's > what I'm betting on) > > * The Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor is saying that there is almost no > vacuum. I'm going to focus on that. Maybe a bad sensor, maybe a big fat > vacuum leak.... A sensor costs $70, and I'm REALLY tired of shotgunning > this thing. I crave logical troubleshooting. So does my pocketbook :). > > * Doubt that it's the O2 sensors - Cars start all the time without O2 > sensors - they have to because O2 sensors don't work at all until they > heat up. > > I wonder if the MAP sensor can be tested by hooking it up to a MityVac? > > - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] Jeep brochures (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jim Blair http://www.lov2xlr8.no/jeep.html are there any benz brochures on line? ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:45:01 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: [db] administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. 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