From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Mon Jul 26 17:30:27 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, July 27 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3307 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] w124.128 no start [db] diesel Q Re: [db] w124.128 no start Re: [db] diesel Q Re: [db] diesel Q Re: [db] w124.128 no start Re: [db] diesel Q Re: [db] diesel Q Re: [db] diesel Q Re: [db] w124.128 no start Re: [db] w124.128 no start Re: [SPAM] Re: [db] w124.128 no start Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:48:24 -0400 From: Subject: [db] w124.128 no start This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I turn the key to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and stay out for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. Therefore I am blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. Take it, have to remove the starter. The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps it is necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to remove engine mounts. If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with me. Thanks Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:50:37 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: [db] diesel Q So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I took heads off and found this : (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] good one for ref : [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? Cheers, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:46:18 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start How much to have a shop fix it? I'm thinking, after dealing with my son's 123 starter and replacing the water pump on my 124, that if the starter ever fails on my '91 that I will sell it as it suits, part it or if I have to pull the engine, I will put it in a jeep. :) The a/c keeps leaking out and the glow plug controller has issues, and it needs tires. But my wife suggested we sell the WJ as it just sits in the carport. We drive the TDI everywhere and my wife uses the 124. When superdawg is done we may sell off everything and get a Diesel liberty or GC or maybe a TDi with automatic. Time will tell. John - ------Original Message------ From: wmpless@iprimus.ca Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: [db] w124.128 no start Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:48 This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I turn the key to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and stay out for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. Therefore I am blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. Take it, have to remove the starter. The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps it is necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to remove engine mounts. If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with me. Thanks Wiard Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:47:33 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q Images can't be sent to the list, put 'em up on a webserver and send the link. :) - ------Original Message------ From: Stephen Rigley Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: xj-list To: diesel-benz list Subject: [db] diesel Q Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:50 So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I took heads off and found this : (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] good one for ref : [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? Cheers, Steve Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:27:35 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q What?! In this day and age?? ;-) Ok then, here they are : http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIabIhNI/AAAAAAAAE9I/TPrsyhZoMEU/s800/P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG http://lh3.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIBsmZKI/AAAAAAAAE9A/4nJ3z7vEXAs/s400/P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG Steve On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:47 PM, wrote: > Images can't be sent to the list, put 'em up on a webserver and send the > link. :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Stephen Rigley > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: xj-list > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: [db] diesel Q > Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:50 > > So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I > took heads off and found this : > > (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : > [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > good one for ref : > [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? > Cheers, > Steve > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:31:11 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start Not me, my son, but he didn't use a sawzall, he saves that tool for his full size jeep. ;) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: "Potter, Tom E" Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:57:50 To: Subject: RE: [db] w124.128 no start You CUT a MERCEDES??? :) I didn't have to cut mine. I replaced the starter on my '81 300D several years ago, and it wasn't too hard. You will need a 1/2-inch drive hex bit socket and an allen wrench of the same size. I think it was 14mm, but I am not sure. You will also need a couple of long (12-inch) 1/2-inch drive extensions, a universal, and a ratchet. To get to one of the bolts, you need to come over the tailpipe hanger bracket (from the transmission) with the two extensions. My bolts were really corroded and hard to break loose, I recommend that you douse them with PBBlaster and let them sit for a day before you try breaking them loose. Anything smaller than 1/2-inch drive is likely to break. I broke one universal doing my starter. Thomas E. Potter Technical Specialist II Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC Office: (713) 215-2877 Cell: (832) 794-0536 Fax: (713) 215-2551 E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com - -----Original Message----- From: dieseljohn@comcast.net [mailto:dieseljohn@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:45 PM To: Potter, Tom E; dieselbenz@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start And dremel tool to cut the access hole in the floor. :) - ------Original Message------ From: Potter, Tom E To: Dj Subject: RE: [db] w124.128 no start Sent: Jul 26, 2010 12:03 Oh C'mon, the 123 starter was not THAT bad. Well, it was a pain; but it is doable (with the right combination of extensions and hex sockets). Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of dieseljohn@comcast.net Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:46 PM To: wmpless@iprimus.ca; owner-diesel-benz@digest.net; diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start How much to have a shop fix it? I'm thinking, after dealing with my son's 123 starter and replacing the water pump on my 124, that if the starter ever fails on my '91 that I will sell it as it suits, part it or if I have to pull the engine, I will put it in a jeep. :) The a/c keeps leaking out and the glow plug controller has issues, and it needs tires. But my wife suggested we sell the WJ as it just sits in the carport. We drive the TDI everywhere and my wife uses the 124. When superdawg is done we may sell off everything and get a Diesel liberty or GC or maybe a TDi with automatic. Time will tell. John - ------Original Message------ From: wmpless@iprimus.ca Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: [db] w124.128 no start Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:48 This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I turn the key to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and stay out for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. Therefore I am blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. Take it, have to remove the starter. The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps it is necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to remove engine mounts. If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with me. Thanks Wiard Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:32:23 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q Absolutely, even among us elite there are clueless users of IE, so we must protect them. :) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Rigley Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:27:35 To: Cc: ; xj-list; diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q What?! In this day and age?? ;-) Ok then, here they are : http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIabIhNI/AAAAAAAAE9I/TPrsyhZoMEU/s800/P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG http://lh3.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIBsmZKI/AAAAAAAAE9A/4nJ3z7vEXAs/s400/P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG Steve On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:47 PM, wrote: > Images can't be sent to the list, put 'em up on a webserver and send the > link. :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Stephen Rigley > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: xj-list > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: [db] diesel Q > Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:50 > > So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I > took heads off and found this : > > (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : > [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > good one for ref : > [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? > Cheers, > Steve > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:37:17 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q Are those water drops or the piston?? I may need to look on a monitor. Yes, a bad injector could do that. John Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Rigley Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:27:35 To: Cc: ; xj-list; diesel-benz list Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q What?! In this day and age?? ;-) Ok then, here they are : http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIabIhNI/AAAAAAAAE9I/TPrsyhZoMEU/s800/P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG http://lh3.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIBsmZKI/AAAAAAAAE9A/4nJ3z7vEXAs/s400/P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG Steve On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:47 PM, wrote: > Images can't be sent to the list, put 'em up on a webserver and send the > link. :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Stephen Rigley > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: xj-list > To: diesel-benz list > Subject: [db] diesel Q > Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:50 > > So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I > took heads off and found this : > > (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : > [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > good one for ref : > [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] > > Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? > Cheers, > Steve > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:19:18 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] diesel Q yeah, some water drops there. On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:37 PM, wrote: > Are those water drops or the piston?? I may need to look on a monitor. Yes, > a bad injector could do that. > > John > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > ------------------------------ > *From: * Stephen Rigley > *Date: *Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:27:35 +0100 > *To: * > *Cc: *; xj-list; diesel-benz > list > *Subject: *Re: [db] diesel Q > > What?! In this day and age?? ;-) > > Ok then, here they are : > > http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIabIhNI/AAAAAAAAE9I/TPrsyhZoMEU/s800/P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG > > > http://lh3.ggpht.com/_dBUe7PVL7zo/TEwdIBsmZKI/AAAAAAAAE9A/4nJ3z7vEXAs/s400/P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG > > Steve > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:47 PM, wrote: > >> Images can't be sent to the list, put 'em up on a webserver and send the >> link. :) >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Stephen Rigley >> Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >> To: xj-list >> To: diesel-benz list >> Subject: [db] diesel Q >> Sent: Jul 26, 2010 10:50 >> >> So... our Diesel Jeep started running on 3 cylinders.. long story short, I >> took heads off and found this : >> >> (the dish is chipped in a couple of places, possibly holed piston?) : >> [image: P1000660%20%28Medium%29.JPG] >> >> good one for ref : >> [image: P1000661%20%28Medium%29.JPG] >> >> Could a bad spray (read drips) from the injector cause this? >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:27:57 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start Look for wires that are not tight - like the battery posts, the ground strap and wires between starter and battery. Also, I had a battery that checked good at the store but was still bad when trying to suck enough amps for a diesel.... On 7/26/2010 1:48 PM, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: > This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I turn the key > to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and stay out > for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. Therefore I am > blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. > Take it, have to remove the starter. > The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps it is > necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts > and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to remove > engine mounts. > If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with me. > Thanks Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:01:40 -0400 From: Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start Ed, you had the right idea. I was about to stick another battery into the car when I noticed that on the plus side the clamp on the cable was not an original one. Cables were fastened with 2 screws to the clamp. This connection was not solid anymore and separated under heavy current flow. For sure, grateful that problem was this easy to correct. R&r of the starter on this car a lot easier than on the W123 and W201. You have to disconnect battery, remove the 2 screws from the fuel thermostat and push it to the side. Then you can reach the cable going to solenoid, remove the boot and remove the nut underneath. Remove the tranny belly pan and undo the bolts holding the starter in place. Then take the starter out - towards the bottom. Thanks for the advice received. Wiard - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Edward Pomeroy" Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:27 PM To: Cc: Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start > Look for wires that are not tight - like the battery posts, the ground > strap and wires between starter and battery. Also, I had a battery that > checked good at the store but was still bad when trying to suck enough > amps for a diesel.... > > On 7/26/2010 1:48 PM, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: >> This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I turn >> the key >> to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and stay >> out >> for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. Therefore I >> am >> blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. >> Take it, have to remove the starter. >> The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps it >> is >> necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts >> and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to remove >> engine mounts. >> If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with me. >> Thanks Wiard >> >> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3029 - Release Date: 07/26/10 > 02:36:00 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:27:59 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [db] w124.128 no start Glad those 4 years of engineering school just paid off in a small but satisfying way :-) Always check the simple first, even if things look "normal". Have saved myself a bunch of grief and dollars over time with this approach as firs action, right down to folks with unplugged appliances that "mysteriously quit working". Edward On 7/26/2010 8:01 PM, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: > Ed, you had the right idea. I was about to stick another battery into > the car when I noticed that on the plus side the clamp on the cable > was not an original one. Cables were fastened with 2 screws to the > clamp. This connection was not solid anymore and separated under > heavy current > flow. For sure, grateful that problem was this easy to correct. > R&r of the starter on this car a lot easier than on the W123 and W201. > You have to disconnect battery, remove the 2 screws from the fuel > thermostat and push it to the side. > Then you can reach the cable going to solenoid, remove the boot and > remove the nut underneath. > Remove the tranny belly pan and undo the bolts holding the starter in > place. Then take the starter out - towards the bottom. > Thanks for the advice received. > Wiard > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Edward Pomeroy" > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 5:27 PM > To: > Cc: > Subject: Re: [db] w124.128 no start > >> Look for wires that are not tight - like the battery posts, the ground >> strap and wires between starter and battery. Also, I had a battery that >> checked good at the store but was still bad when trying to suck enough >> amps for a diesel.... >> >> On 7/26/2010 1:48 PM, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: >>> This morning the car refused to start. Pre-glow normal but when I >>> turn the key >>> to the start pos. starter does not turn and all lights go out and >>> stay out >>> for a while. Took a load test on the battery and it passed. >>> Therefore I am >>> blaming the starter solenoid. Tried to bang on it but no change. >>> Take it, have to remove the starter. >>> The MB WIS says for 602 engines in addition to regular removal steps >>> it is >>> necessary to remove the fuel thermostat, lower bolts from engine mounts >>> and to lift engine a bit. Looked at my car think not necessary to >>> remove >>> engine mounts. >>> If you have done this r&r would appreciate if you share details with >>> me. >>> Thanks Wiard >>> >>> >> >> > > > >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3029 - Release Date: >> 07/26/10 02:36:00 ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3307 **********************************