From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Fri Aug 20 15:32:48 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, August 20 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3316 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix [db] 190DT engine vibration RE: [db] 190DT engine vibration Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:00:21 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse that's good. If there's no change, that's the problem. - ------Original Message------ From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: dbl ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 Hi all, Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? Thanks all, John Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:07:29 -0400 From: Subject: [db] 190DT engine vibration my first guess is also engine mounts. They are to have a certain height. Sorry, don't have the details ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:23:00 -0700 From: "Scott Haaland" Subject: RE: [db] 190DT engine vibration Could be the pulley tensioner also? If so, that's an easy fix...I think my 85 190D had this go bad and it caused some vibration...or maybe that was on my suburban?? Can't remember now... - -- Scott - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of wmpless@iprimus.ca Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:07 PM To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Cc: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: [db] 190DT engine vibration my first guess is also engine mounts. They are to have a certain height. Sorry, don't have the details ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 21:23:51 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Lift the engine with a big bar or carefully with a jack. If the mount is bad it'll likely separate. If the mounts are solid the watch the harmonic balancer and crawl underneath to make sure the flex plate/tc aren't dancing or loose. At least you know it's not tire balance or u-joints or tires. :) - ------Original Message------ From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com To: Dj ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix Sent: Aug 20, 2010 14:06 John, Thanks for the quick response. So basically isolate a bad injector. After that, is there a good visual way to tell if its balancer or mounts? Thanks John - -----Original Message----- >From: dieseljohn@comcast.net >Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:00 PM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix > >could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse that's good. If there's no change, that's the problem. >------Original Message------ >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >To: dbl >ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix >Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 > >Hi all, > >Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. > >Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? > >Thanks all, > >John > > >Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:30:21 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix btw, do you smell any Diesel? I've lost an injector line on a couple of rigs... sometimes you lose power drastically, other times not so much... but almost always you'll smell Diesel and usually find a mess under the hood... :) john On 8/20/2010 2:23 PM, dieseljohn@comcast.net wrote: > Lift the engine with a big bar or carefully with a jack. If the mount is bad it'll likely separate. If the mounts are solid the watch the harmonic balancer and crawl underneath to make sure the flex plate/tc aren't dancing or loose. > > At least you know it's not tire balance or u-joints or tires. :) > ------Original Message------ > From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > To: Dj > ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix > Sent: Aug 20, 2010 14:06 > > John, > > Thanks for the quick response. So basically isolate a bad injector. After that, is there a good visual way to tell if its balancer or mounts? > > Thanks > > John > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: dieseljohn@comcast.net >> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:00 PM >> To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix >> >> could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse that's good. If there's no change, that's the problem. >> ------Original Message------ >> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >> To: dbl >> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix >> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 >> >> Hi all, >> >> Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. >> >> Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? >> >> Thanks all, >> >> John >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:47:20 -0500 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix How can you partially lose a cylinder on a 190D and not notice it? ;-) I say motor mounts. Never had a W201, but on the 123 and 124 those puppies make a WORLD of difference when you replace dead ones. Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 08 smart fortwo, 36K On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 4:30 PM, john wrote: > btw, do you smell any Diesel? > > I've lost an injector line on a couple of rigs... sometimes you lose power > drastically, other times not so much... but > almost always you'll smell Diesel and usually find a mess under the hood... > :) > > john > > On 8/20/2010 2:23 PM, dieseljohn@comcast.net wrote: >> >> Lift the engine with a big bar or carefully with a jack. If the mount is >> bad it'll likely separate. If the mounts are solid the watch the harmonic >> balancer and crawl underneath to make sure the flex plate/tc aren't dancing >> or loose. >> >> At least you know it's not tire balance or u-joints or tires. :) >> ------Original Message------ >> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> To: Dj >> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to >> findsourse and fix >> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 14:06 >> >> John, >> >> Thanks for the quick response. So basically isolate a bad injector. >> After that, is there a good visual way to tell if its balancer or mounts? >> >> Thanks >> >> John >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: dieseljohn@comcast.net >>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:00 PM >>> To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >>> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to >>> find sourse and fix >>> >>> could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to >>> the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse that's >>> good. If there's no change, that's the problem. >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >>> To: dbl >>> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find >>> sourse and fix >>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The >>> vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of >>> course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. >>> >>> Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope >>> nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same >>> though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it >>> lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? >>> >>> Thanks all, >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> > > -- > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:48:01 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix Of the engine otherwise ticks over smoothly and accelerates normally, it is 98% sure to be your engine mounts - I had exactly the same symptoms and all it took were a pair of cheap chinese engine mounts (made to mercedes specs) and the problem went away. Not that hard to do either. You will need a very long (3 ft) extension for your ratched and a swivel end with a thin wall short socket to fit the upper bolts. Lower bolts easily reached from below. Open hood, place a solid block of wood (wide) under the oil pan of the engine and jack it up, did I say open hood? don't forget or you will jack the upper part of the engine through it. I found that if loosen both mounts, upper and lower bolts, then remove one side upper, followed by lower then jack the engine so it tilts a bit as it goes up, you can squeeze out the old mount and insert the new one from below. Alignment is a chore but it can be done. Repeat for other side with side just done snug but not tight. If you take care nothing else needs to be loosened. do a visual on the linkages and other things as you jack to make sure you are not stressing them. Good luck, it helps if you have access to a lift or a pit. Doing this on your back under ramps is possible but no fun. Edward On 8/20/2010 4:51 PM, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hi all, > > Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. > > Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? > > Thanks all, > > John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:49:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix No mess under hood and no visible diesel leaks. Im under the hood regularly as I am still running down the ignition fuel cut off issue and have to hit the lever on the injector to shut down. But looks like I have a more urgent task at hand. Odd thing is the shut off lever goes partially down and am getting what appears to be sufficient vacuume as measure from the line to activate lever. Another discussion for another day - -----Original Message----- >From: john >Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:30 PM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Cc: dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix > > btw, do you smell any Diesel? > >I've lost an injector line on a couple of rigs... sometimes you lose power >drastically, other times not so much... but >almost always you'll smell Diesel and usually find a mess under the hood... :) > >john > >On 8/20/2010 2:23 PM, dieseljohn@comcast.net wrote: >> Lift the engine with a big bar or carefully with a jack. If the mount is bad it'll likely separate. If the mounts are solid the watch the harmonic balancer and crawl underneath to make sure the flex plate/tc aren't dancing or loose. >> >> At least you know it's not tire balance or u-joints or tires. :) >> ------Original Message------ >> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> To: Dj >> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix >> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 14:06 >> >> John, >> >> Thanks for the quick response. So basically isolate a bad injector. After that, is there a good visual way to tell if its balancer or mounts? >> >> Thanks >> >> John >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dieseljohn@comcast.net >>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:00 PM >>> To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >>> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix >>> >>> could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse that's good. If there's no change, that's the problem. >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >>> To: dbl >>> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find sourse and fix >>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. >>> >>> Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? >>> >>> Thanks all, >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >> >> > >-- > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:29:41 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to findsourse and fix I lost a line on my VW pickup... it ran a little rough at first... but I couldn't tell I'd lost a line... on my 190D, hoo boy could I tell... same on my 2.5L I-5 300D... one line meant a BIG loss of power. On 8/20/2010 2:47 PM, Alec Cordova wrote: > How can you partially lose a cylinder on a 190D and not notice it? ;-) > I say motor mounts. Never had a W201, but on the 123 and 124 those > puppies make a WORLD of difference when you replace dead ones. > > Alec Cordova > Taylor, Texas > 08 smart fortwo, 36K > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 4:30 PM, john wrote: >> btw, do you smell any Diesel? >> >> I've lost an injector line on a couple of rigs... sometimes you lose power >> drastically, other times not so much... but >> almost always you'll smell Diesel and usually find a mess under the hood... >> :) >> >> john >> >> On 8/20/2010 2:23 PM, dieseljohn@comcast.net wrote: >>> Lift the engine with a big bar or carefully with a jack. If the mount is >>> bad it'll likely separate. If the mounts are solid the watch the harmonic >>> balancer and crawl underneath to make sure the flex plate/tc aren't > dancing >>> or loose. >>> >>> At least you know it's not tire balance or u-joints or tires. :) >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> To: Dj >>> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to >>> findsourse and fix >>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 14:06 >>> >>> John, >>> >>> Thanks for the quick response. So basically isolate a bad injector. >>> After that, is there a good visual way to tell if its balancer or mounts? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dieseljohn@comcast.net >>>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 5:00 PM >>>> To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >>>> Subject: Re: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to >>>> find sourse and fix >>>> >>>> could be a bad injector/line, mounts, balancer. Loss of power points to >>>> the former. Loosen each injector, if the engine or vibes get worse > that's >>>> good. If there's no change, that's the problem. >>>> ------Original Message------ >>>> From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>>> Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >>>> To: dbl >>>> ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>>> Subject: [db] 1987 190DT bad engine vibrations just started need to find >>>> sourse and fix >>>> Sent: Aug 20, 2010 13:51 >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Looking for some advice. My 87 190DT just started vibrating badly. The >>>> vibration is very noticeable at idle and continues at all speeds but of >>>> course is less noticeable as it is masked by other driving noise etc. >>>> >>>> Thoughts are damper or engine mount but really am not sure. I hope >>>> nothing more serious than that. Drivability seems to be about the same >>>> though there may be less power though Im not 100% sure as I am driving it >>>> lightly due to vibration. Any ideas as to what to check? >>>> >>>> Thanks all, >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >>> >>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T >>> >>> >> -- >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3316 **********************************