From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Fri Dec 10 17:52:27 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Saturday, December 11 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3355 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 21:50:28 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. Okay, about to reveal my ignorance to those who didn't already know about it... :) What is "flaring"? - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Thu Dec 09, 2010, Mike Frank wrote: > I've been having problems with transmission flaring on the 190DT. I > was ready to write the car off, just waiting for the day when a flare > turned into a lost gear. But to my surprise, there was an easy cure. > I replaced the K1 and K2 accumulator springs and waddaya > know...smooth, crisp shifts. Both springs were badly damaged: the K1 > is a compound spring, and the plastic keepers were broken. The K2 > main spring was simply broken into pieces. > > The bad news is that I had to buy an entire Superior valve body kit > for sixty bucks. The good news is that I have a healthy car again for > just sixty bucks, plus the cost of a pan full of transmission fluid > and a filter kit, and an hour and a half working in the freezing cold. > > I wholeheartedly recommend this fix if you have a flaring shifter. > The kit has many, many parts which fix various problems, if you have > anything else suspicious going on. > > http://www.superiortransmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=19 > > Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:24:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? like the 123 or 124s? my TDI woes have escalated another notch... not sure where I left off on the story, but the used pump I got wasn't a 10mm, but an 11mm (supposedly) for an automatic... shop said no way they'd install it... so I called around, no pumps to be found, two weeks out on a rebuilt (affordable)... made a few calls to pump shops, 11mm is considered an upgrade... (piston size in the injection pump), an engineer friend made a rough calculation and said that could increase fuel/power by around 20%... which is the reason the shop wouldn't install it, they were concerned about breaking the transmission... so... I finally convinced them to use it... well, the guy on ebay had pulled the sprocket... which absolutely and totally screwed me... the shop didn't have the means of reindexing the sprocket on that pump... but wait, it's worse... the mechanic didn't think about that until he pulled the sprocket on my damaged pump, so we couldn't even frankenstein a pump... arghhh... called the pump shop in portland, no worries, they'll reindex the sprocket... and check both pumps... so I'm either packing up pumps tomorrow or driving down to portland on monday in the 300D so I can get one good pump and the TDI put back together... it's getting a new rubber band and water pump, so the bill is likely to be pretty steep... I love driving the TDI but despite how much nicer it is to drive than a Diesel Benz it is an absolute freaking high maintenance vehicle... timing belts and throw away water pumps and an egr that clogs the intake, and a computer to annoy you with petty complaints... I am becoming more motivated to build this '83 Cherokee with the SD33T and run waste oil, biodiesel, whatever will flow in the lines and not worry about it and sell the TDI, or buy another 124 300D. :) will be hard to part with the Jetta, nice car to drive, but just looking at the Cherokee and the J10 convinces me that it'll be ok: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1983-CherokeeChief/83-J10-Chief/ALL.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Mike Frank wrote: # I've been having problems with transmission flaring on the 190DT. I was ready # to write the car off, just waiting for the day when a flare turned into a # lost gear. But to my surprise, there was an easy cure. I replaced the K1 and # K2 accumulator springs and waddaya know...smooth, crisp shifts. Both springs # were badly damaged: the K1 is a compound spring, and the plastic keepers were # broken. The K2 main spring was simply broken into pieces. # # The bad news is that I had to buy an entire Superior valve body kit for sixty # bucks. The good news is that I have a healthy car again for just sixty bucks, # plus the cost of a pan full of transmission fluid and a filter kit, and an # hour and a half working in the freezing cold. # # I wholeheartedly recommend this fix if you have a flaring shifter. The kit # has many, many parts which fix various problems, if you have anything else # suspicious going on. # # http://www.superiortransmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=19 # # Mike Frank # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:29:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. flaring is something more common to the 123 300D models, it'll kind of "slide" or "flare" into 3rd gear, it's a sick feeling when you feel it... it feels expensive... people who weren't on this list and knew a number of fixes (I think they should be in the tech section on wagoneers.com, oh wait, johnmeister.com/DieselBenz ) ended up paying some dipstick dishonest shop, like aamco or other either ignorant or blatantly dishonest shops for a full rebuild. mercedes transmissions are pretty solid... other than the fact that rube goldberg designed them and vacuum leaks (and in the case of the 201 model) broken springs, can cause shifting irregularties... remember the hard shift on the 124? a vacuum leak... I won't say the obvious, but you know it really, really s.... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # Okay, about to reveal my ignorance to those who didn't already know # about it... :) # # What is "flaring"? # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Thu Dec 09, 2010, Mike Frank wrote: # > I've been having problems with transmission flaring on the 190DT. I # > was ready to write the car off, just waiting for the day when a flare # > turned into a lost gear. But to my surprise, there was an easy cure. # > I replaced the K1 and K2 accumulator springs and waddaya # > know...smooth, crisp shifts. Both springs were badly damaged: the K1 # > is a compound spring, and the plastic keepers were broken. The K2 # > main spring was simply broken into pieces. # > # > The bad news is that I had to buy an entire Superior valve body kit # > for sixty bucks. The good news is that I have a healthy car again for # > just sixty bucks, plus the cost of a pan full of transmission fluid # > and a filter kit, and an hour and a half working in the freezing cold. # > # > I wholeheartedly recommend this fix if you have a flaring shifter. # > The kit has many, many parts which fix various problems, if you have # > anything else suspicious going on. # > # > http://www.superiortransmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=19 # > # > Mike Frank # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:56:44 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. As you get to the point the transmission should shift, it sort of goes into neutral for a second, the revs race up, and then it finally finds the gear. Mike Frank At 12:50 AM 12/10/2010, Bruce Caruthers wrote: >Okay, about to reveal my ignorance to those who didn't already know >about it... :) > >What is "flaring"? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 07:01:29 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... John beat me to the punch. Exactly my symptoms only I have a 124, same year as John's Will locate the company and make some calls when I get back CONUS Edward On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:24:29 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? > > like the 123 or 124s? > > my TDI woes have escalated another notch... not sure where I left off on > the > story, but the used pump I got wasn't a 10mm, but an 11mm (supposedly) for > an automatic... > shop said no way they'd install it... so I called around, no pumps to be > found, two weeks > out on a rebuilt (affordable)... made a few calls to pump shops, 11mm is > considered an > upgrade... (piston size in the injection pump), an engineer friend made a > rough calculation > and said that could increase fuel/power by around 20%... which is the > reason the shop > wouldn't install it, they were concerned about breaking the > transmission... so... I > finally convinced them to use it... well, the guy on ebay had pulled the > sprocket... which > absolutely and totally screwed me... the shop didn't have the means of > reindexing the sprocket > on that pump... but wait, it's worse... the mechanic didn't think about > that until > he pulled the sprocket on my damaged pump, so we couldn't even > frankenstein a pump... arghhh... > > > called the pump shop in portland, no worries, they'll reindex the > sprocket... and check both > pumps... so I'm either packing up pumps tomorrow or driving down to > portland on monday in > the 300D so I can get one good pump and the TDI put back together... it's > getting a new > rubber band and water pump, so the bill is likely to be pretty steep... I > love driving the > TDI but despite how much nicer it is to drive than a Diesel Benz it is an > absolute freaking > high maintenance vehicle... timing belts and throw away water pumps and > an egr that clogs > the intake, and a computer to annoy you with petty complaints... > > I am becoming more motivated to build this '83 Cherokee with the SD33T and > run waste oil, > biodiesel, whatever will flow in the lines and not worry about it and sell > the TDI, or buy > another 124 300D. :) > > will be hard to part with the Jetta, nice car to drive, but just looking > at the Cherokee and the J10 > convinces me that it'll be ok: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1983-CherokeeChief/83-J10-Chief/ALL.html > > > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Mike Frank wrote: > > # I've been having problems with transmission flaring on the 190DT. I was > ready > # to write the car off, just waiting for the day when a flare turned into > a > # lost gear. But to my surprise, there was an easy cure. I replaced the > K1 and > # K2 accumulator springs and waddaya know...smooth, crisp shifts. Both > springs > # were badly damaged: the K1 is a compound spring, and the plastic > keepers were > # broken. The K2 main spring was simply broken into pieces. > # > # The bad news is that I had to buy an entire Superior valve body kit for > sixty > # bucks. The good news is that I have a healthy car again for just sixty > bucks, > # plus the cost of a pan full of transmission fluid and a filter kit, and > an > # hour and a half working in the freezing cold. > # > # I wholeheartedly recommend this fix if you have a flaring shifter. The > kit > # has many, many parts which fix various problems, if you have anything > else > # suspicious going on. > # > # http://www.superiortransmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=19 > # > # Mike Frank > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 07:02:24 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... It will work on the 124's for sure...all the parts in my transmission have numbers that start A124... As for the 123, I'm not sure. The kit will work for 722.3 transmissions...isn't this the designation for 123's? Mike Frank At 01:24 AM 12/10/2010, john wrote: >that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... Mike, Were you able to take any pictures? Would you be willing to write up a little tech piece/how to for the Diesel Benz site so we have that procedure up there? Anyone else got some notes on repairs, let's gather them up. I've found some really detailed procedures on a couple of the TDI sites, we should do something like that as well. Even though our cars don't break down nearly as often as the VWs. ;) http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Mike Frank wrote: # It will work on the 124's for sure...all the parts in my transmission have # numbers that start A124... As for the 123, I'm not sure. The kit will work # for 722.3 transmissions...isn't this the designation for 123's? # # Mike Frank # # At 01:24 AM 12/10/2010, john wrote: # >that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:03:37 -0500 From: Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... All here is the response from the manufacturer of that kit: Subject RE: Website - Shift/Trans Kit for Mercedes 124 300D 1991 - 1993 Sender Robert Bob White Recipient ejpomeroy at qtm dot net Date Today 08:31 To protect your privacy, remote images are blocked in this message. Display images Yes the superior part # K722A-D will work... it fits 722.3, 722.4 and 722.5 units Robert "Bob" White Global Sales Manager Superior Transmission Parts, Inc. 1-800-451-3115 x207 fax (850) 575-9097 International Sales 850-574-2369 On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:51:43 -0800 (PST), john wrote: > Mike, > > Were you able to take any pictures? Would you be willing to write up > a little tech piece/how to for the Diesel Benz site so we have that > procedure up there? > > Anyone else got some notes on repairs, let's gather them up. I've > found some really detailed procedures on a couple of the TDI sites, > we should do something like that as well. Even though our cars > don't break down nearly as often as the VWs. ;) > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ > > thanx, > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Mike Frank wrote: > > # It will work on the 124's for sure...all the parts in my transmission > have > # numbers that start A124... As for the 123, I'm not sure. The kit will > work > # for 722.3 transmissions...isn't this the designation for 123's? > # > # Mike Frank > # > # At 01:24 AM 12/10/2010, john wrote: > # >that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 20:38:48 -0500 From: Mike Frank Subject: Re: [db] Superior Shift kit. --> tdi anguish... There's really no need. The K2 accumulator affects the 3/4 upshift, the K1 accumulator affects the 2/3 upshift. K1 is located in the front left corner of the valve body , K2 is on the rear left corner.There are some excellent write-ups on the web. Here are a few good links: http://190rev.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37987 Outstanding write up on replacing the K1 spring with the Mercedes kit (not the Superior kit...the Superior kit is easier, it replaces all three springs and the plastic keepers with a single stiff spring). You will absolutely need an offset screwdriver, as there's no room for anything else. The only thing I'd add is that if you have a vacuum tank, it's much easier to suction the old fluid out of the dipstick tube than to drain it from the bottom. The same Mercedes kit will work on the K2 piston, but only on early transmissions, and no, I don't know the cutoff date. If you have a later transmission as I do, the only choice is the Superior kit as Mercedes doesn't list a part number in Epic. This isn't too awful, since the superior kit includes the parts for both the K1 and K2, as well as replacements for a dozen other parts should you need to go further. There's good info on the Superior kit at this site: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=237763 The original writer was confused because, like me, he has the later style K2. This K2 piston has two concentric springs, both of which are replaced with a single spring in the Superior kit. The kit comes with many springs which can be used to repair other valve body problems. You could be aggressive and replace everything at once, but I prefer to only fix the stuff that's broken. There is one common flaw in older transmissions that the kit doesn't address, that is the B2 piston, which controls the engagement of 1st gear. You can find a write up here: http://articles.mbz.org/transmission/b2/ Review the links, and ask 'em if you got 'em. Mike Frank At 02:51 PM 12/10/2010, you wrote: >Mike, > >Were you able to take any pictures? Would you be willing to write up >a little tech piece/how to for the Diesel Benz site so we have that >procedure up there? > >Anyone else got some notes on repairs, let's gather them up. I've >found some really detailed procedures on a couple of the TDI sites, >we should do something like that as well. Even though our cars >don't break down nearly as often as the VWs. ;) > >http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/ > >thanx, >john > > > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Mike Frank wrote: > > # It will work on the 124's for sure...all the parts in my transmission have > # numbers that start A124... As for the 123, I'm not sure. The kit will work > # for 722.3 transmissions...isn't this the designation for 123's? > # > # Mike Frank > # > # At 01:24 AM 12/10/2010, john wrote: > # >that's excellent info... will this kit work on other models as well? > # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3355 **********************************