From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Thu Dec 16 16:51:16 2010 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, December 17 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3358 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Fw: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question [db] RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage [db] lies about Diesels? in California? no... couldn't be... Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question [db] RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 01:35:23 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Fw: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question - ------Original Message------ To: Edward Pomeroy To: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: Jim Hoffman Cc: dbl Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question Sent: Dec 15, 2010 17:34 It's relatively low pressure, maybe 75psi, you could insert some brake line tubing with a couple of compression fittings. If you replaced the entire line I doubt you'd get the flare to match on the ends. I wouldn't use rubber line because it'll swell and affect the operation of tyhe injector, possibly causing it to run a little lean. Also if ethanol is used it might dissolve. The fuel pressure is important for proper tuning, altering the length could be an issue. Could cause it to run rough or too lean at higher rpms. Melting pistons isn't cheap. - ------Original Message------ From: Edward Pomeroy Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: Jim Hoffman Cc: dbl Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question Sent: Dec 15, 2010 15:38 Interesting question. On a diesel you can't just use any replacemnt, it has to be exactly the same length as all the injection lines on the engine which are identical in length, just bent different to fit. I think on the gasser, the injection timing is electronic and not mechanical so maybe the tube length is not as critical but I am not sure. My first impulse would be to go to the nearest wrecking yard and see if you can get a line from another similar engined gasser that is the same length. The next impulse would be to see if the line could be repaired by brazing on a sleeve over the cracked zone. Last option, bite the bullet and call your neares benz dealership. Edward On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:46:50 -0800 (PST), Jim Hoffman wrote: > Folks, > > I know there are a few of us with gassers on this list. A buddy of > mine is working on an 83 and had a problem. He asked me to query the > list for > an answer. Can anyone help him? I'll pass on any suggestions > to him. Below > is his question. > > TIA! > > Jim > > "I was changing the injectors on a 1983 380SEL > when I accidently broke > the fuel line on the injector located on the Driver's > side, second in > toward the driver. > > Any advice on where to get a line that > will fit properly much > appreciated. I will bend it of course, I just need to > know where to > buy a line with the proper fittings." Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:59:16 -0800 From: Eric Ditwiler Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question injection is mechanical in old benz gassers. On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, wrote: > Interesting question. On a diesel you can't just use any replacemnt, it > has to be exactly the same length as all the injection lines on the engine > which are identical in length, just bent different to fit. > > I think on the gasser, the injection timing is electronic and not > mechanical so maybe the tube length is not as critical but I am not sure. > > My first impulse would be to go to the nearest wrecking yard and see if > you can get a line from another similar engined gasser that is the same > length. > > The next impulse would be to see if the line could be repaired by brazing > on a sleeve over the cracked zone. > > Last option, bite the bullet and call your neares benz dealership. > > Edward > > > On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:46:50 -0800 (PST), Jim Hoffman > wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I know there are a few of us with gassers on this list. A buddy of >> mine is working on an 83 and had a problem. He asked me to query the >> list for >> an answer. Can anyone help him? I'll pass on any suggestions >> to him. Below >> is his question. >> >> TIA! >> >> Jim >> >> "I was changing the injectors on a 1983 380SEL >> when I accidently broke >> the fuel line on the injector located on the Driver's >> side, second in >> toward the driver. >> >> Any advice on where to get a line that >> will fit properly much >> appreciated. I will bend it of course, I just need to >> know where to >> buy a line with the proper fittings." Eric Ditwiler Director, Academic Operations Harvey Mudd College 909-607-3134 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:35:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question which means the line length and diameter is critical... like I though... I had a '74 450SEL with this injection... I think... it had the infamous cracked exhaust headers, a very common problem on the gas benz... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Eric Ditwiler wrote: # injection is mechanical in old benz gassers. # # On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, wrote: # # > Interesting question. On a diesel you can't just use any replacemnt, it # > has to be exactly the same length as all the injection lines on the engine # > which are identical in length, just bent different to fit. # > # > I think on the gasser, the injection timing is electronic and not # > mechanical so maybe the tube length is not as critical but I am not sure. # > # > My first impulse would be to go to the nearest wrecking yard and see if # > you can get a line from another similar engined gasser that is the same # > length. # > # > The next impulse would be to see if the line could be repaired by brazing # > on a sleeve over the cracked zone. # > # > Last option, bite the bullet and call your neares benz dealership. # > # > Edward # > # > # > On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:46:50 -0800 (PST), Jim Hoffman # > wrote: # >> Folks, # >> # >> I know there are a few of us with gassers on this list. A buddy of # >> mine is working on an 83 and had a problem. He asked me to query the # >> list for # >> an answer. Can anyone help him? I'll pass on any suggestions # >> to him. Below # >> is his question. # >> # >> TIA! # >> # >> Jim # >> # >> "I was changing the injectors on a 1983 380SEL # >> when I accidently broke # >> the fuel line on the injector located on the Driver's # >> side, second in # >> toward the driver. # >> # >> Any advice on where to get a line that # >> will fit properly much # >> appreciated. I will bend it of course, I just need to # >> know where to # >> buy a line with the proper fittings." # # Eric Ditwiler # Director, Academic Operations # Harvey Mudd College # 909-607-3134 # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:43:37 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage I noticed how little water mist was coming off the wheels of a Priuus on I-405 a few weeks ago... they did a good job of aerodynamics on that car... ugly as sin, but slippery as snot. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Comparing different body styles, the FSJs are really shapped like a brick, while the XJs had a better flowing body design. # # Smoothing the air flow around the grille and adding underbody panel could help reduce the drag such as panels screwed in front the engine. The wheel wells are a marvel of turbulent flow, check the other vehicles while driving in the rain, while not being the driver of course. # # Some of the hypermiler have incredible body mods. # # http://www.aerocivic.com/ # # cheers # # Michel # # # > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:05:15 -0800 # > > From: john@wagoneers.com # > > To: # > > Subject: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage # > > # > > just found my notes from superdawg, 4.2L with T-5, 235s and 3.31 gears: # > > average fuel economy over 8,821.8 miles was 13.65 mpg # > > # > > best ever mileage was 18.65 mpg # > > # > > my records for my '81 were all on paper, but the best mileage ever # > > was 13.74 something, average was in the 11-12 mpg range. # > > # > > # > > my best XJ average was the '87 4.0 with 3" of lift and 31s, got around 17 in # > town, # > > 21 on the highway... # > > # > > # > > ----- # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:56:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] lies about Diesels? in California? no... couldn't be... the contents of this email also at: http://johnmeister.com/DIESELS/tech/Diesel-pollution-overstated-by-CA.txt - ---------------------------------------------------- California Air Resources Board caught in deception related to Diesel pollutants. Articles below. (December 2010) Also note, that the medical community has for the most part not questioned this data, except for a few who became outcasts. It seems that "popular" science is quite political. I've question many of the current ideas about global warming (bad data), the ozone (R12 demise - patent expired), and many other chemicals and materials as mostly over reactionary and in many cases simply junk science based on flawed and invalidated data. see: http://rps3.com/Pages/Burt_Rutan_on_Climate_Change.htm see: http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/Enstrom022610.pdf QUESTION RESEARCH, VALIDATE DATA, don't ignore basic logic or Occam's razor. - ------------------------------------- NEWS ON THIS FROM THE LEFT! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/07/BAOF1FDMRV.DTL#ix zz11iqEfuN9 image: http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2010/10/07/ba-carb1008_gr_SFCG1286500409_pa rt6.jpg California grossly miscalculated pollution levels in a scientific analysis used to toughen the state's clean-air standards, and scientists have spent the past several months revising data and planning a significant weakening of the landmark regulation, The Chronicle has found. The pollution estimate in question was too high - by 340 percent, according to the California Air Resources Board, the state agency charged with researching and adopting air quality standards. The estimate was a key part in the creation of a regulation adopted by the Air Resources Board in 2007, a rule that forces businesses to cut diesel emissions by replacing or making costly upgrades to heavy-duty, diesel-fueled off-road vehicles used in construction and other industries. The staff of the powerful and widely respected Air Resources Board said the overestimate is largely due to the board calculating emissions before the economy slumped, which halted the use of many of the 150,000 diesel-exhaust-spewing vehicles in California. Independent researchers, however, found huge overestimates in the air board's work on diesel emissions and attributed the flawed work to a faulty method of calculation - not the economic downturn. The overestimate, which comes after another bad calculation by the air board on diesel-related deaths that made headlines in 2009, prompted the board to suspend the regulation this year while officials decided whether to weaken the rule. - ------------------------------------- http://www.capitolweekly.net/article.php?xid=z49s2hbpp9llve - ------------------------------------- http://energy.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1223&wit_id=3530 - ------------------------------------- http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordiesel/documents/emissions_inventory_presentat ion_full_10_09_03.pdf - ------------------------------------- http://newsletters.agc.org/environment/2010/09/08/california-admits-to-vastly - -overstating-construction-emissions-following-agcs-efforts/ - ------------------------------------- http://killcarb.org/2010091103-dieselrules.html - ------------------------------------- http://dieseldig.com/2010/10/11/california-caught-in-lie-about-diesel-emissio ns/ You know when the enviro nazis that run the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have overstepped when even a liberal far left rag like the San Francisco Chronicle is exposing their lies. This comes as we have just learned that CARB falsified and overstated the effects and pollution of diesel emissions by 340 percent in order to push their clamp down b^\greenb^] agenda. These are lies that have cost the private sector and the state of California potentially billions of dollars to upfit fleets of trucks, busses, tractors and other equipment to meet the landmark new emissions regulations that were the result of the trumped up studies. Additionally, the resulting legislation has made bringing diesel automobiles and pick-ups to market in California that much more difficult. - ------------------------------------- http://forums.focaljet.com/team-pit-stop/637902-california-lower-pollution-st andards.html - ------------------------------------- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:57:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question He ordered one online. Just has to wait for it to be delivered to finish up the project. Thanks for all the suggestions, Jim - --- On Thu, 12/16/10, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] '83 380SEL gasser question > To: "Eric Ditwiler" > Cc: ejpomeroy@qtm.net, "Jim Hoffman" , diesel-benz@digest.net > Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 11:35 AM > which means the line length and > diameter is critical... like I though... I had > a '74 450SEL with this injection... I think... it had > the infamous cracked > exhaust headers, a very common problem on the gas > benz... > > john > > > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where > Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Eric Ditwiler wrote: > > # injection is mechanical in old benz gassers. > # > # On Dec 15, 2010, at 3:38 PM, > wrote: > # > # > Interesting question. On a diesel you can't just > use any replacemnt, it > # > has to be exactly the same length as all the > injection lines on the engine > # > which are identical in length, just bent different > to fit. > # > > # > I think on the gasser, the injection timing is > electronic and not > # > mechanical so maybe the tube length is not as > critical but I am not sure. > # > > # > My first impulse would be to go to the nearest > wrecking yard and see if > # > you can get a line from another similar engined > gasser that is the same > # > length. > # > > # > The next impulse would be to see if the line could > be repaired by brazing > # > on a sleeve over the cracked zone. > # > > # > Last option, bite the bullet and call your neares > benz dealership. > # > > # > Edward > # > > # > > # > On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:46:50 -0800 (PST), Jim > Hoffman > # > > wrote: > # >> Folks, > # >> > # >> I know there are a few of us with gassers > on this list. A buddy of > # >> mine is working on an 83 and had a > problem. He asked me to query the > # >> list for > # >> an answer. Can anyone help him? > I'll pass on any suggestions > # >> to him. Below > # >> is his question. > # >> > # >> TIA! > # >> > # >> Jim > # >> > # >> "I was changing the injectors on a 1983 380SEL > # >> when I accidently broke > # >> the fuel line on the injector located on the > Driver's > # >> side, second in > # >> toward the driver. > # >> > # >> Any advice on where to get a line that > # >> will fit properly much > # >> appreciated. I will bend it of course, I > just need to > # >> know where to > # >> buy a line with the proper fittings." > # > # Eric Ditwiler > # Director, Academic Operations > # Harvey Mudd College > # 909-607-3134 > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] RE: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage cool website, maybe I won't need to do the body work on my jetta, just apply some of these tricks: http://www.aerocivic.com/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Comparing different body styles, the FSJs are really shapped like a brick, while the XJs had a better flowing body design. # # Smoothing the air flow around the grille and adding underbody panel could help reduce the drag such as panels screwed in front the engine. The wheel wells are a marvel of turbulent flow, check the other vehicles while driving in the rain, while not being the driver of course. # # Some of the hypermiler have incredible body mods. # # http://www.aerocivic.com/ # # cheers # # Michel # # # > > Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:05:15 -0800 # > > From: john@wagoneers.com # > > To: # > > Subject: fsj: 4.2 in a J10 - mileage # > > # > > just found my notes from superdawg, 4.2L with T-5, 235s and 3.31 gears: # > > average fuel economy over 8,821.8 miles was 13.65 mpg # > > # > > best ever mileage was 18.65 mpg # > > # > > my records for my '81 were all on paper, but the best mileage ever # > > was 13.74 something, average was in the 11-12 mpg range. # > > # > > # > > my best XJ average was the '87 4.0 with 3" of lift and 31s, got around 17 in # > town, # > > 21 on the highway... # > > # > > # > > ----- # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3358 **********************************