From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Wed Jan 19 12:32:56 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, January 19 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3376 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 Fw: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 [db] Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT [db] MB om651 engine [none] [none] Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:13:09 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 I am German after all. Only 2 generations in the US. :) john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Caruthers Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 02:07:52 To: Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers Subject: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 Apparently, the engineers at MB share genes with John! :) - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] - -- http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/mercedes_engine_transplant_modern_diesel_in_a_1992_190e_2.6-feature - -- Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 - Feature Franken-Benz: It's alive! It's alive! BY JENS MEINERS, PHOTOGRAPHY BY BRYAN CHRISTIE DESIGN December 2009 Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 ______________________________________ Want to give a beloved but somewhat anemic classic car an extreme makeover? Try an engine swap with a more powerful contemporary unit. Tuners do it all the time, but it's surprising to see Mercedes rejuvenate an 18-year-old 190E with a modern powerplant. Built to showcase the substantial advances in diesel-engine technology over the past 20 years, a group of manic Mercedes-Benz engineers in Stuttgart-Sindelfingen took a 1992 190E 2.6--the chiseled ancestor of the C-class--and transplanted a modern 2.1-liter, twin-turbo diesel into its engine bay. This is the vaunted four-cylinder OM651 engine, a rather heavy unit (but about the same weight as the 2.6-liter inline-six it replaces in the 190E) that is available throughout vast areas of the Mercedes car and truck landscape, including in the Sprinter van. A 50-state-legal version of this diesel is coming to American showrooms in 2011 under the hoods of the C- and GLK-classes. Twin-turbocharged and equipped with a state-of-the-art injection system, the OM651 is as powerful as it is efficient. For the 190E conversion, Mercedes chose a variant that makes 201 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque and coupled it to a six-speed manual. That translates to 43 more horsepower and a stunning increase in torque of 207 pound-feet over the gas-burning 2.6-liter it replaces. The original diesels that were offered in the 190- series made between 71 and 124 horsepower. Thus equipped, the 190E becomes the 190D "BlueEfficiency," which zips to 60 mph in roughly 6.0 seconds and tops out at 149 mph. A 190E 2.6 we tested in July 1991 needed 9.4 seconds to reach 60 and gave up at 126 mph. For once, a massive increase in performance comes with much greater fuel efficiency: The most miserly of the original 190Ds achieved 32 mpg on the European cycle; the car with the engine implant, making almost three times the previous power, gets 48 mpg on the same cycle. So we agree that, compared with the diesel engines available in the baby Benz at the time, the 201-hp OM651 is a far superior unit. But there are further, probably unintentional conclusions to be drawn from this experiment. The bottom line: Today's cars are seriously heavy. The original 1988 190D weighed a whopping 850 pounds less than a new C-class equipped with the 2.1-liter diesel, the C250 CDI. Both the Frankenstein 190D and the modern C250 will hit 149 mph--but the heavier C-class loses the race to get there. In the 0-to-60 sprint alone, the C250 trails the 190D BlueEfficiency by 0.8 second. Beyond its superior acceleration, the old car also feels lighter, is more fun to drive, and charges forward at the slightest provocation of the throttle. The C250 CDI, by contrast, feels isolated and more massive. Mercedes is quick to defend the modern car's superiority by pointing out its seven airbags, stability control, heated mirrors, multiway adjustable seats, and so on. Yes, it's a safer car with more amenities--but the old baby Benz wasn't exactly a deathtrap. And we're not at all surprised that the greatest obstacle to creating this experimental 190D was coaxing the new engine to fire up. Getting the unit to work requires fooling its engine-control computer by sending it all the modern-car communication signals it expects. And then there's the styling. Seeing it again makes us long for the stoic lines and supremely functional bodywork of the 190 series. If such an engine swap were available officially, we'd think this baby Benz could keep us happy for another 18 years. - -- Specifications VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan ENGINE TYPE: twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 16-valve inline-4 diesel, iron block and aluminum head, direct fuel injection Displacement: 131 cu in, 2143cc Power (SAE net): 201 bhp @ 4200 rpm Torque (SAE net): 369 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual DIMENSIONS: Wheelbase: 104.9 in Length: 175.1 in Width: 66.5 in Height: 54.1 in Curb weight: 3100 lb PERFORMANCE (C/D EST): Zero to 60 mph: 6.0 sec Standing <-mile: 14.7 sec Top speed (governor limited): 149 mph PROJECTED FUEL ECONOMY (MFR'S EST): European urban cycle: 48 mpg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:28:37 +0000 From: dieseljohn@comcast.net Subject: Fw: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 I happen to know where there is a '92 190E for sale cheap. All we need is that engine. :) 0 to 60 in 6 seconds! - ------Original Message------ From: Bruce Caruthers Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: dbl ReplyTo: Bruce Caruthers Subject: [db] Fwd: Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 Sent: Jan 16, 2011 02:07 Apparently, the engineers at MB share genes with John! :) - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] - -- http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/mercedes_engine_transplant_modern_diesel_in_a_1992_190e_2.6-feature - -- Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 - Feature Franken-Benz: It's alive! It's alive! BY JENS MEINERS, PHOTOGRAPHY BY BRYAN CHRISTIE DESIGN December 2009 Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 ______________________________________ Want to give a beloved but somewhat anemic classic car an extreme makeover? Try an engine swap with a more powerful contemporary unit. Tuners do it all the time, but it's surprising to see Mercedes rejuvenate an 18-year-old 190E with a modern powerplant. Built to showcase the substantial advances in diesel-engine technology over the past 20 years, a group of manic Mercedes-Benz engineers in Stuttgart-Sindelfingen took a 1992 190E 2.6--the chiseled ancestor of the C-class--and transplanted a modern 2.1-liter, twin-turbo diesel into its engine bay. This is the vaunted four-cylinder OM651 engine, a rather heavy unit (but about the same weight as the 2.6-liter inline-six it replaces in the 190E) that is available throughout vast areas of the Mercedes car and truck landscape, including in the Sprinter van. A 50-state-legal version of this diesel is coming to American showrooms in 2011 under the hoods of the C- and GLK-classes. Twin-turbocharged and equipped with a state-of-the-art injection system, the OM651 is as powerful as it is efficient. For the 190E conversion, Mercedes chose a variant that makes 201 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque and coupled it to a six-speed manual. That translates to 43 more horsepower and a stunning increase in torque of 207 pound-feet over the gas-burning 2.6-liter it replaces. The original diesels that were offered in the 190- series made between 71 and 124 horsepower. Thus equipped, the 190E becomes the 190D "BlueEfficiency," which zips to 60 mph in roughly 6.0 seconds and tops out at 149 mph. A 190E 2.6 we tested in July 1991 needed 9.4 seconds to reach 60 and gave up at 126 mph. For once, a massive increase in performance comes with much greater fuel efficiency: The most miserly of the original 190Ds achieved 32 mpg on the European cycle; the car with the engine implant, making almost three times the previous power, gets 48 mpg on the same cycle. So we agree that, compared with the diesel engines available in the baby Benz at the time, the 201-hp OM651 is a far superior unit. But there are further, probably unintentional conclusions to be drawn from this experiment. The bottom line: Today's cars are seriously heavy. The original 1988 190D weighed a whopping 850 pounds less than a new C-class equipped with the 2.1-liter diesel, the C250 CDI. Both the Frankenstein 190D and the modern C250 will hit 149 mph--but the heavier C-class loses the race to get there. In the 0-to-60 sprint alone, the C250 trails the 190D BlueEfficiency by 0.8 second. Beyond its superior acceleration, the old car also feels lighter, is more fun to drive, and charges forward at the slightest provocation of the throttle. The C250 CDI, by contrast, feels isolated and more massive. Mercedes is quick to defend the modern car's superiority by pointing out its seven airbags, stability control, heated mirrors, multiway adjustable seats, and so on. Yes, it's a safer car with more amenities--but the old baby Benz wasn't exactly a deathtrap. And we're not at all surprised that the greatest obstacle to creating this experimental 190D was coaxing the new engine to fire up. Getting the unit to work requires fooling its engine-control computer by sending it all the modern-car communication signals it expects. And then there's the styling. Seeing it again makes us long for the stoic lines and supremely functional bodywork of the 190 series. If such an engine swap were available officially, we'd think this baby Benz could keep us happy for another 18 years. - -- Specifications VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan ENGINE TYPE: twin-turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 16-valve inline-4 diesel, iron block and aluminum head, direct fuel injection Displacement: 131 cu in, 2143cc Power (SAE net): 201 bhp @ 4200 rpm Torque (SAE net): 369 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm TRANSMISSION: 6-speed manual DIMENSIONS: Wheelbase: 104.9 in Length: 175.1 in Width: 66.5 in Height: 54.1 in Curb weight: 3100 lb PERFORMANCE (C/D EST): Zero to 60 mph: 6.0 sec Standing <-mile: 14.7 sec Top speed (governor limited): 149 mph PROJECTED FUEL ECONOMY (MFR'S EST): European urban cycle: 48 mpg john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:26:22 -0500 From: Subject: [db] Mercedes Engine Transplant: Modern Diesel in a 1992 190E 2.6 ?yes, and I want a W124 T with such an engine. May be you buy a used W124 300te, store it and look for a used OM651 in a couple of years. Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:46:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT All, As usual thanks to John and the crowd for timely and informative advice and encouragement. Got whitey started and running well yesterday morning. Put a charger on Friday gave it a few tries before attaining full charge. Decided to leave it alone and charge over night. Replaced the spin on and in-line filters for good measure. Had to buy in-line from dealer, didn't have one on hand, and to my surprise they only charged me $2.40. Not my usual dealer experience. Lots of gunk and some black deposits in filter. Cranked for a series of 30 secs and nothing so went with WD40, thanks Eric, in the air box. Warnings and my own research on using ether led me to the conclusion that glow plugs and ether don't play nice together. She fired up and ran real rough and loud for 10 or 15 minutes than smoothed out. Still need to fix the injector O rings, the root cause of the air in the lines. Does it make any sense to do the injector rings a couple at a time? Looks like one could stage by locking ring sets. Get the engine running and than do the next set to avoid all the hard cranking to purge air. This past experience has made me wary of sustained cranking and battery resilience in the dead of winter. At the risk of starting a flame I have to sign of with J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS John 1987 190DT - -----Original Message----- >From: john >Sent: Jan 14, 2011 12:39 AM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Cc: Michael Frank , diesel-benz list >Subject: Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT > >I've got all the details in pictures >http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/124-series/Pressure-Valve-Seal-Replacement-2010/ALL.html > >On 1/13/2011 7:43 PM, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: >> Mike, >> >> Thanks, and yes the "O" rings actually think only one is bad. Thanks for the tip with the socket included that's not too bad a price. >> >> Let the fun begin tomorrow morning. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael Frank >>> Sent: Jan 13, 2011 10:30 PM >>> To: diesel-benz list >>> Subject: Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT >>> >>> Take off your spin on fuel filter. Fill it with something flammable. >>> Put it back. The car should start right up, run for a while, and >>> maybe stall. It'll be easier to prime once you've done this. >>> >>> Is the "small leak" an injector o-ring? If they're really bad, it >>> won't start. I installed the kit from Kent Bergsma: >>> >>> http://www.mercedessource.com/node/2615 >>> >>> It's a bit expensive, but all the right stuff in one place saved me a >>> lot of time. The only thing you need to add is a can of spray cleaner. >>> >>> Mike Frank >>> >>> >>> At 10:06 PM 1/13/2011, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> In a little bit of a bind. Have a known problem small leak at top >>>> of injection pump housing, haven't had time to fix. Well As luck >>>> would have it the leak got worse while parked at work today and >>>> would not start when it was time to go home. >> > >-- > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:21:24 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT No. Once you're in it, you're in it. You have to remove the hard lines, or at least loosen them all up at both ends. You need to clean the pump with lots of carb cleaner, because any dirt will spoil your day. By the time you're at the point to do the first one, you've done 3/4 of the work. Replacing the orings and washers after everything is clean and exposed takes maybe three minutes each. Once the pump is properly sealed, it will be a bit easier to prime. Mike Frank At 12:46 PM 1/16/2011, you wrote: >Still need to fix the injector O rings, the root cause of the air in >the lines. Does it make any sense to do the injector rings a couple >at a time? Looks like one could stage by locking ring sets. Get the >engine running and than do the next set to avoid all the hard >cranking to purge air. This past experience has made me wary of >sustained cranking and battery resilience in the dead of winter. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:05:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Quickeiest way to bleed fuel line on 190DT agree with mike on this one, do them all, same thing if you get into a fuel rail with fuel injection, once you've opened that system up, replace all the o-rings... I posted the link showing the internals of the high pressure seals and pump, should help... I've done it twice now, not hard at all. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 16 Jan 2011, Michael Frank wrote: # No. Once you're in it, you're in it. You have to remove the hard lines, or at # least loosen them all up at both ends. You need to clean the pump with lots # of carb cleaner, because any dirt will spoil your day. By the time you're at # the point to do the first one, you've done 3/4 of the work. Replacing the # orings and washers after everything is clean and exposed takes maybe three # minutes each. Once the pump is properly sealed, it will be a bit easier to # prime. # # Mike Frank # # At 12:46 PM 1/16/2011, you wrote: # >Still need to fix the injector O rings, the root cause of the air in the # >lines. Does it make any sense to do the injector rings a couple at a time? # >Looks like one could stage by locking ring sets. Get the engine running and # >than do the next set to avoid all the hard cranking to purge air. This past # >experience has made me wary of sustained cranking and battery resilience in # >the dead of winter. # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:15:16 -0500 From: Subject: [db] MB om651 engine ?googled for info on this engine and it seems MB has a worldwide problem with the injectors supplied by delphi. Well, may be in future engine will come with Bosch injectors. Will be a while before can afford a used one. Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:28:39 -0800 From: Justin H Subject: [none] http://zoluqymagipobu.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:16:35 -0800 From: Justin H Subject: [none] http://www.bibliotecafranzoniana.it/newpharma.php ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3376 **********************************