From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Wed Feb 2 12:16:01 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, February 2 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3391 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] partz benz Re: [db] partz benz Re: [db] partz benz (and a few more thoughts on the bent 190D) Re: [db] partz benz [db] 190D 2.5D NA [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:07:58 -0500 From: Richard Welty Subject: [db] partz benz here is the defunct w210 in all its snow covered glory: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/5410972372/in/photostream/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:12:17 -0500 From: Richard Welty Subject: Re: [db] partz benz > the parts I can see look quite nice... :) > > the lumps behind it on the left are my 1974 Alfa GTV 2000 and 1989 Alfa Milano richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 09:26:34 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: [db] partz benz (and a few more thoughts on the bent 190D) On 2/2/2011 9:12 AM, Richard Welty wrote: here is the defunct w210 in all its snow covered glory: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/5410972372/in/photostream/ >> the parts I can see look quite nice... :) the lumps behind it on the left are my 1974 Alfa GTV 2000 and 1989 Alfa Milano > richard - -------------------------------- I love these detailed East Coast pictures... :) BTW, just looked at JM7_3834_2011.02.01.jpg JM7_3843_2011.02.01.jpg in http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/roadtest.html again... after a couple of my friends pointed out some damage, I had noticed the junkyard marking on the axle, but missed the damage in the upper part of the trunk in the picture, not sure how I missed that... sun was in my eyes... :) but that's why I take pictures when I look at a car, the camera doesn't miss details... so, other than the doors not opening properly in the back, and the possibility of it not tracking straight, not sure that'll be a problem, it drove straight... is there any reason to run from this car? Not going to pay $3k for it, but I might make an offer if I can live with this damage... I don't know how low this guy will go, or how low I should go if I should at all... after all this is a 24 year old car with 275,000 miles... thoughts? I have a nibble on my TDI already, going to let it sell... I've experienced the TDI world, it's very nice, but laden with issues... biggest issue for me is the manual transmission... not fun in traffic, and my back is starting to act up again... and a VW automatic isn't in my price range... too bad my J10 project isn't done... john - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:26:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] partz benz the parts I can see look quite nice... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, Richard Welty wrote: # here is the defunct w210 in all its snow covered glory: # # http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/5410972372/in/photostream/ # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:54:36 -0500 From: Subject: [db] 190D 2.5D NA o;?John wrote The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the rear doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old car with 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? Listening. :) Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work on cars but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. We all know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live with improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is down. And repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of the car. Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the money for a newer Benz diesel. Also donb^Yt believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car payment. Wiard PS I prefer the seats in W124 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/engines-comparison-October-2008.txt full details below: ================================================= Benz Model/Engine --601 series-- - -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 72hp @ 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm --602 series-- - -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 non-turbo 93hp @ 4100 rpm, 122 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm - -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 turbo 123 hp @ 4600 rpm, 168 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm - -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 turbo 121 hp @ 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm --603 series-- - -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 148 hp @ 4600 rpm, 201 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm - -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L TD - BEWARE 150 hp @ 4000 rpm, 229 ftlbs @ 2200 rpm - -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 143 hp @ 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm --606 series-- - -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 ???? --616 series-- - -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) --617 series-- - -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine 617.912 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 - -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 - -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine 617.952 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 year - engine - HP @ rpm - torque @ rpm - -------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp @ 3,200 - 210 ft lbs @ 1,800 <-- original 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp @ 4,600 - 220 ft lbs @ 2,400 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp @ 4,800 - 295 ft lbs @ 3,200 <-- WJ 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp @ 4,600 - 230 ft lbs @ 3,000 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp @ 3,700 - 245 ft lbs @ 1,600 <-- Old Blue 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp @ 4,500 - 224 ft lbs @ 2,500 <-- little wagoneer 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp @ 4,750 - 225 ft lbs @ 4,000 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp @ 4,400 - 300 ft lbs @ 3,200 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp @ 4,400 - 320 ft lbs @ 2,800 <-- 401 V8 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp @ 3,600 - 240 ft lbs @ 2,000 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp @ 3,200 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,800 GAS V8s 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp @ 4,000 - 300 ft lbs @ 2,800 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp @ 3,400 - 270 ft lbs @ 2,400 Mercedes Diesels - -------------------------------- 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp @ 4,200 - 96 ft lbs @ 2,800 (normally aspirated) 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp @ 4,600 - 168 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) <-- fritz 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) - ------------------------------------------------- CUMMINS 3.9/5.9 4BT/6BT Specifications B3.9 B5.9 4BT 6BT ADVERTISED HP 110-125 150-173 HP 82-93 KW 112-129 KW PEAK TORQUE 346-373 LB-FT 453-580 LB-FT 469-506 N.M 614-786 N.M NUMBER OF CYLINDERS 4 6 OIL SYSTEM 11.5 U.S. QT 17.2 U.S. QT CAPACITY 10.9 LITERS 16.3 LITERS WET WEIGHT 745-782 LB 952-997 LB 338-355 KG 432-452 KG LENGTH 30.6 IN 40.0 IN 777 MM 1016 MM WIDTH 24.6 IN 24.9 IN 625 MM 632 MM HEIGHT 37.7 IN 37.9 IN 958 MM 963 MM ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:03:58 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Good point, just found another 124 just like mine for 4k. - ------Original Message------ From: wmpless@iprimus.ca Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Sent: Feb 2, 2011 09:54 o;?John wrote The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the rear doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old car with 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? Listening. :) Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work on cars but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. We all know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live with improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is down. And repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of the car. Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the money for a newer Benz diesel. Also donb^Yt believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car payment. Wiard PS I prefer the seats in W124 john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:34:36 -0600 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Is the Cummins 6BT what they used in the Dodge Ram trucks? 5.9 liters sounds familiar, but Boy Howdy! nearly 1,000 pounds? Also interesting comparing the OM 616 and 617 with their 601/602 replacements. Alec On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:51 AM, john wrote: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/engines-comparison-October-2008.txt > > > full details below: > > ================================================= > Benz Model/Engine > --601 series-- > -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 > 72hp @ 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm > > --602 series-- > -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 > non-turbo 93hp @ 4100 rpm, 122 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm > -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 > turbo 123 hp @ 4600 rpm, 168 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 > turbo 121 hp @ 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > --603 series-- > -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 > 148 hp @ 4600 rpm, 201 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L TD - BEWARE > 150 hp @ 4000 rpm, 229 ftlbs @ 2200 rpm > -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 > 143 hp @ 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > --606 series-- > -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 > ???? > > --616 series-- > -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 > 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) > > --617 series-- > -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine 617.912 > 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 > -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 > -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine 617.952 > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 > > year - engine - HP @ rpm - torque @ rpm > -------------------------------------- > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp @ 3,200 - 210 ft lbs @ 1,800 <-- original > 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp @ 4,600 - 220 ft lbs @ 2,400 > > 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp @ 4,800 - 295 ft lbs @ 3,200 <-- WJ > 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp @ 4,600 - 230 ft lbs @ 3,000 > > 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp @ 3,700 - 245 ft lbs @ 1,600 <-- Old Blue > 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp @ 4,500 - 224 ft lbs @ 2,500 <-- little wagoneer > > 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp @ 4,750 - 225 ft lbs @ 4,000 > 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp @ 4,400 - 300 ft lbs @ 3,200 > > 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp @ 4,400 - 320 ft lbs @ 2,800 <-- 401 V8 > > 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp @ 3,600 - 240 ft lbs @ 2,000 > 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp @ 3,200 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,800 > > GAS V8s > 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp @ 4,000 - 300 ft lbs @ 2,800 > 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp @ 3,400 - 270 ft lbs @ 2,400 > > Mercedes Diesels > -------------------------------- > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp @ 4,200 - 96 ft lbs @ 2,800 (normally aspirated) > 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) > 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp @ 4,600 - 168 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) > 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) <-- fritz > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) > > ------------------------------------------------- > CUMMINS 3.9/5.9 4BT/6BT > > Specifications > B3.9 B5.9 > 4BT 6BT > > ADVERTISED HP 110-125 150-173 HP > 82-93 KW 112-129 KW > PEAK TORQUE 346-373 LB-FT 453-580 LB-FT > 469-506 N.M 614-786 N.M > NUMBER OF CYLINDERS 4 6 > > OIL SYSTEM 11.5 U.S. QT 17.2 U.S. QT > CAPACITY 10.9 LITERS 16.3 LITERS > > WET WEIGHT 745-782 LB 952-997 LB > 338-355 KG 432-452 KG > > LENGTH 30.6 IN 40.0 IN > 777 MM 1016 MM > WIDTH 24.6 IN 24.9 IN > 625 MM 632 MM > HEIGHT 37.7 IN 37.9 IN > 958 MM 963 MM > > > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:15:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas are the specs there? see if you can dig 'em up, will update that info in a new page... yes, that's the 5.9 used in the Rams. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, Alec Cordova wrote: # Is the Cummins 6BT what they used in the Dodge Ram trucks? 5.9 liters # sounds familiar, but Boy Howdy! nearly 1,000 pounds? # # Also interesting comparing the OM 616 and 617 with their 601/602 replacements. # # Alec # # On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:51 AM, john wrote: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/engines-comparison-October-2008.txt # > # > # > full details below: # > # > ================================================= # > Benz Model/Engine # > --601 series-- # > -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 # > 72hp @ 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm # > # > --602 series-- # > -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 # > non-turbo 93hp @ 4100 rpm, 122 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm # > -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 # > turbo 123 hp @ 4600 rpm, 168 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm # > -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 # > turbo 121 hp @ 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm # > # > --603 series-- # > -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 # > 148 hp @ 4600 rpm, 201 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm # > -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L TD - BEWARE # > 150 hp @ 4000 rpm, 229 ftlbs @ 2200 rpm # > -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 # > 143 hp @ 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm # > # > --606 series-- # > -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 # > ???? # > # > --616 series-- # > -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 # > 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) # > # > --617 series-- # > -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine 617.912 # > 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 # > -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 # > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 # > -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine 617.952 # > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 # > # > year - engine - HP @ rpm - torque @ rpm # > -------------------------------------- # > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp @ 3,200 - 210 ft lbs @ 1,800 <-- original # > 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp @ 4,600 - 220 ft lbs @ 2,400 # > # > 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp @ 4,800 - 295 ft lbs @ 3,200 <-- WJ # > 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp @ 4,600 - 230 ft lbs @ 3,000 # > # > 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp @ 3,700 - 245 ft lbs @ 1,600 <-- Old Blue # > 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp @ 4,500 - 224 ft lbs @ 2,500 <-- little wagoneer # > # > 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp @ 4,750 - 225 ft lbs @ 4,000 # > 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp @ 4,400 - 300 ft lbs @ 3,200 # > # > 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp @ 4,400 - 320 ft lbs @ 2,800 <-- 401 V8 # > # > 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp @ 3,600 - 240 ft lbs @ 2,000 # > 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp @ 3,200 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,800 # > # > GAS V8s # > 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp @ 4,000 - 300 ft lbs @ 2,800 # > 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp @ 3,400 - 270 ft lbs @ 2,400 # > # > Mercedes Diesels # > -------------------------------- # > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp @ 4,200 - 96 ft lbs @ 2,800 (normally aspirated) # > 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) # > 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp @ 4,600 - 168 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) # > 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) <-- fritz # > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ 2,400 (TURBO) # > # > ------------------------------------------------- # > CUMMINS 3.9/5.9 4BT/6BT # > # > Specifications # > B3.9 B5.9 # > 4BT 6BT # > # > ADVERTISED HP 110-125 150-173 HP # > 82-93 KW 112-129 KW # > PEAK TORQUE 346-373 LB-FT 453-580 LB-FT # > 469-506 N.M 614-786 N.M # > NUMBER OF CYLINDERS 4 6 # > # > OIL SYSTEM 11.5 U.S. QT 17.2 U.S. QT # > CAPACITY 10.9 LITERS 16.3 LITERS # > # > WET WEIGHT 745-782 LB 952-997 LB # > 338-355 KG 432-452 KG # > # > LENGTH 30.6 IN 40.0 IN # > 777 MM 1016 MM # > WIDTH 24.6 IN 24.9 IN # > 625 MM 632 MM # > HEIGHT 37.7 IN 37.9 IN # > 958 MM 963 MM # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3391 **********************************