From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Wed Feb 2 13:47:10 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, February 2 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3392 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] partz benz (and a few more thoughts on the bent 190D) Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:16:59 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA he emailed back, said he'd talk $2500. I pointed out the damage issues and said the most I'd go is 1500. He's got others interested, unlikely a normal person will find that damage... if it hadn't been for the sharp eyes of my camera and good friends I would have missed it too. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: # o;?John wrote # The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the rear # doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old car with # 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? # # Listening. :) # # # Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work on cars # but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. We all # know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live with # improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is down. And # repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of the car. # Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the money for # a newer Benz diesel. # Also donb^Yt believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car # payment. Wiard # PS I prefer the seats in W124 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:24:39 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA he emailed back, claims normal title, no car fax info... pictures and doors tell a different story... someone fixed it on their own... :) thanx guys. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, john wrote: # he emailed back, said he'd talk $2500. I pointed out the damage issues # and said the most I'd go is 1500. He's got others interested, unlikely # a normal person will find that damage... if it hadn't been for the sharp eyes # of my camera and good friends I would have missed it too. # # john # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: # # # o;?John wrote # # The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the rear # # doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old car with # # 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? # # # # Listening. :) # # # # # # Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work on cars # # but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. We all # # know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live with # # improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is down. And # # repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of the car. # # Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the money for # # a newer Benz diesel. # # Also donb^Yt believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car # # payment. Wiard # # PS I prefer the seats in W124 # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:51:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] partz benz (and a few more thoughts on the bent 190D) John, Should of taken a picture of my MB star this morning. Completely covered in ice like a bit ice ball. We got 20 inches of snow last week and an ice storm last night in coastal CT. Good thing I have studded snows! JJS - -----Original Message----- >From: john >Sent: Feb 2, 2011 12:26 PM >To: Richard Welty >Cc: diesel-benz list , Terry Halmshaw >Subject: Re: [db] partz benz (and a few more thoughts on the bent 190D) > >On 2/2/2011 9:12 AM, Richard Welty wrote: >here is the defunct w210 in all its snow covered glory: >http://www.flickr.com/photos/nfgusedautoparts/5410972372/in/photostream/ >>> the parts I can see look quite nice... :) >the lumps behind it on the left are my 1974 Alfa GTV 2000 and 1989 Alfa Milano >> richard >-------------------------------- > >I love these detailed East Coast pictures... :) > >BTW, just looked at > >JM7_3834_2011.02.01.jpg >JM7_3843_2011.02.01.jpg in >http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/roadtest.html > >again... after a couple of my friends pointed out some damage, I had noticed the >junkyard marking >on the axle, but missed the damage in the upper part of the trunk in the >picture, not sure how >I missed that... sun was in my eyes... :) but that's why I take pictures when I >look at a car, >the camera doesn't miss details... > > >so, other than the doors not opening properly in the back, and the possibility >of it not tracking straight, not sure >that'll be a problem, it drove straight... is there any reason to run from this >car? Not going to pay $3k for it, but >I might make an offer if I can live with this damage... I don't know how low >this guy will go, or how low I should go >if I should at all... after all this is a 24 year old car with 275,000 miles... > >thoughts? > >I have a nibble on my TDI already, going to let it sell... I've experienced the >TDI world, it's very nice, but laden with >issues... biggest issue for me is the manual transmission... not fun in traffic, >and my back is starting to act up again... >and a VW automatic isn't in my price range... > >too bad my J10 project isn't done... > >john > > >-- > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ John, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:57:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Carfax misses a lot of stuff even if it was done professionally. Especially on an older car. Know this for a fact as my 1995 Audi 90 Sport shows no accidents and it was very close to being totaled in 2000. - -----Original Message----- >From: john >Sent: Feb 2, 2011 3:24 PM >To: wmpless@iprimus.ca >Cc: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net >Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA > >he emailed back, claims normal title, no car fax info... > >pictures and doors tell a different story... someone fixed it on their own... :) > >thanx guys. > >john > > > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, john wrote: > > # he emailed back, said he'd talk $2500. I pointed out the damage issues > # and said the most I'd go is 1500. He's got others interested, unlikely > # a normal person will find that damage... if it hadn't been for the sharp eyes > # of my camera and good friends I would have missed it too. > # > # john > # > # > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: > # > # # o;?John wrote > # # The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the rear > # # doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old car with > # # 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? > # # > # # Listening. :) > # # > # # > # # Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work on cars > # # but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. We all > # # know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live with > # # improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is down. And > # # repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of the car. > # # Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the money for > # # a newer Benz diesel. > # # Also donb^Yt believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car > # # payment. Wiard > # # PS I prefer the seats in W124 > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:10:33 -0600 From: Alec Cordova Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Yup. CarFax is definitely subject to false negatives. If it's on the CarFax report, it's probably true. If it's not on the CarFax report, you can't assume it never happened. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote: > Carfax misses a lot of stuff even if it was done professionally. Especially > on an older car. Know this for a fact as my 1995 Audi 90 Sport shows no > accidents and it was very close to being totaled in 2000. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: john >>Sent: Feb 2, 2011 3:24 PM >>To: wmpless@iprimus.ca >>Cc: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net >>Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA >> >>he emailed back, claims normal title, no car fax info... >> >>pictures and doors tell a different story... someone fixed it on their own... > :) >> >>thanx guys. >> >>john >> >> >> >> ----- >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >>http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, john wrote: >> >> # he emailed back, said he'd talk $2500. I pointed out the damage issues >> # and said the most I'd go is 1500. He's got others interested, unlikely >> # a normal person will find that damage... if it hadn't been for the sharp > eyes >> # of my camera and good friends I would have missed it too. >> # >> # john >> # >> # >> # >> # ----- >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum >> # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # >> # On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: >> # >> # # o;?John wrote >> # # The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the > rear >> # # doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old > car with >> # # 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? >> # # >> # # Listening. :) >> # # >> # # >> # # Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work > on cars >> # # but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. > We all >> # # know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live > with >> # # improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is > down. And >> # # repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of > the car. >> # # Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the > money for >> # # a newer Benz diesel. >> # # Also donb t believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car >> # # payment. Wiard >> # # PS I prefer the seats in W124 >> # # >> # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:12:57 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Carfax not only misses, but they have false positives as well, just ask bruce. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Alec Cordova Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:10:33 To: Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA Yup. CarFax is definitely subject to false negatives. If it's on the CarFax report, it's probably true. If it's not on the CarFax report, you can't assume it never happened. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:57 PM, wrote: > Carfax misses a lot of stuff even if it was done professionally. Especially > on an older car. Know this for a fact as my 1995 Audi 90 Sport shows no > accidents and it was very close to being totaled in 2000. > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: john >>Sent: Feb 2, 2011 3:24 PM >>To: wmpless@iprimus.ca >>Cc: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net >>Subject: Re: [db] 190D 2.5D NA >> >>he emailed back, claims normal title, no car fax info... >> >>pictures and doors tell a different story... someone fixed it on their own... > :) >> >>thanx guys. >> >>john >> >> >> >> ----- >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >>http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, john wrote: >> >> # he emailed back, said he'd talk $2500. I pointed out the damage issues >> # and said the most I'd go is 1500. He's got others interested, unlikely >> # a normal person will find that damage... if it hadn't been for the sharp > eyes >> # of my camera and good friends I would have missed it too. >> # >> # john >> # >> # >> # >> # ----- >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum >> # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >> # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # >> # >> # On Wed, 2 Feb 2011, wmpless@iprimus.ca wrote: >> # >> # # o;?John wrote >> # # The car is clean and drove nicely. If the back end is tweaked and the > rear >> # # doors hard to open I'm not sure that is a big deal for a 24 year old > car with >> # # 275k on it. What kind of problems would this be for a daily driver? >> # # >> # # Listening. :) >> # # >> # # >> # # Further investigations are warranted. We all now that you like to work > on cars >> # # but why burden yourself down with a 24 year old car with 440.000 km. > We all >> # # know too well even MB parts wear out. Even if you prepared to live > with >> # # improper accident repairs the next buyer will not and the price is > down. And >> # # repair costs for example tranny, a/c will easily exceed the value of > the car. >> # # Take the liberty to suggest drive the Jetta for a while and safe the > money for >> # # a newer Benz diesel. >> # # Also donb t believe in buying a new car or having to make monthly car >> # # payment. Wiard >> # # PS I prefer the seats in W124 >> # # >> # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:29:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] horsepower info - engine swap ideas Yup! That's what's in my truck. Just finished plowing the 12" of snow we got over the past 36 hours. And I'm pretty sure it's actually OVER 1000lbs.... ;) Jim - --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Alec Cordova wrote: > From: Alec Cordova > Subject: Re: [db] horsepower info - - engine swap ideas > To: "john" , "Diesel-Benz List" > Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 1:34 PM > Is the Cummins 6BT what they used in > the Dodge Ram trucks? 5.9 liters > sounds familiar, but Boy Howdy! nearly 1,000 pounds? > > Also interesting comparing the OM 616 and 617 with their > 601/602 > replacements. > > Alec > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:51 AM, john > wrote: > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/engines-comparison-October-2008.txt > > > > > > full details below: > > > > ================================================= > > Benz Model/Engine > > --601 series-- > > -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 > > 72hp @ 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs @ > 2800 rpm > > > > --602 series-- > > -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 > > non-turbo 93hp @ 4100 rpm, > 122 ftlbs @ 2800 rpm > > -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 > > turbo 123 hp @ 4600 rpm, > 168 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine > 602.962 > > turbo 121 hp @ 4600 rpm, > 165 ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > > > --603 series-- > > -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 > > 148 hp @ 4600 rpm, 201 > ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L > TD - BEWARE > > 150 hp @ 4000 rpm, 229 > ftlbs @ 2200 rpm > > -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 > > 143 hp @ 4600 rpm, 195 > ftlbs @ 2400 rpm > > > > --606 series-- > > - -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 > > ???? > > > > - --616 series-- > > -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 > > 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 ft > lbs @ 2,400 (normally aspirated) > > > > --617 series-- > > -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine > 617.912 > > 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft > lbs @ 2,400 > > -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 > > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs > @ 2,400 > > -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine > 617.952 > > 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs > @ 2,400 > > > > year - engine - HP @ > rpm - torque @ rpm > > - -------------------------------------- > > 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp @ 3,200 - 210 > ft lbs @ 1,800 <-- original > > 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp @ 4,600 - 220 ft > lbs @ 2,400 > > > > 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp @ 4,800 - 295 ft lbs @ 3,200 > <-- WJ > > 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp @ 4,600 - 230 ft lbs @ 3,000 > > > > 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp @ 3,700 - 245 ft lbs @ > 1,600 <-- Old Blue > > 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp @ 4,500 - 224 ft > lbs @ 2,500 <-- little wagoneer > > > > 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp @ 4,750 - 225 ft > lbs @ 4,000 > > 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp @ 4,400 - 300 ft > lbs @ 3,200 > > > > 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp @ 4,400 - 320 > ft lbs @ 2,800 <-- 401 V8 > > > > 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp @ 3,600 - 240 ft lbs @ 2,000 > > 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp @ 3,200 - 440 lb-ft @ 1,800 > > > > GAS V8s > > 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp @ 4,000 - 300 ft lbs @ 2,800 > > 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp @ 3,400 - 270 ft lbs @ 2,400 > > > > Mercedes Diesels > > - -------------------------------- > > 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp @ 4,200 - 96 ft lbs @ > 2,800 (normally aspirated) > > 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp @ 4,400 - 97 > ft lbs @ 2,400 (normally > aspirated) > > 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp @ 4,600 - - 168 ft lbs @ 2,400 > (TURBO) > > 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp @ 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs @ 2,400 > (normally aspirated) > <-- fritz > > 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp @ 4,350 - 170 ft lbs @ > 2,400 (TURBO) > > > > - ------------------------------------------------- > > CUMMINS 3.9/5.9 4BT/6BT > > > > > Specifications > > > B3.9 > B5.9 > > > 4BT > 6BT > > > > ADVERTISED > HP 110-125 150-173 HP > > > 82-93 KW > 112-129 KW > > PEAK TORQUE > 346-373 LB-FT 453-580 > LB-FT > > > 469-506 N.M > 614-786 N.M > > NUMBER OF CYLINDERS 4 > 6 > > > > OIL SYSTEM > 11.5 U.S. QT 17.2 U.S. QT > > CAPACITY > 10.9 LITERS 16.3 > LITERS > > > > WET WEIGHT > 745-782 LB 952-997 LB > > > 338-355 KG > 432-452 KG > > > > LENGTH > 30.6 IN > 40.0 IN > > > 777 MM > 1016 MM > > WIDTH > 24.6 IN > 24.9 IN > > > 625 MM > 632 MM > > HEIGHT > 37.7 IN > 37.9 IN > > > 958 MM > 963 MM > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- > where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3392 **********************************