From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Fri Mar 18 13:51:41 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Friday, March 18 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3416 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Dos Benzes Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:35:44 GMT From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Dos Benzes Benz-getting would allow me to meet you, though! I've meant to for such a long time! Hmmmm..... Jason - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: To: Cc: Subject: Re: [db] Dos Benzes Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:59:48 -0400 Must-not-bid-on-this-car.....not-not-not....it is only 6 hours drive north of me - no, not, not.....too many unfinished cars now..... naughty Jason! Edward On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 00:32:55 GMT, "jasonbassett@juno.com" wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220756230500 > > The first of the two. Jim take note. > > Jason ____________________________________________________________ Groupon™ Official Site 1 ridiculously huge coupon a day. Get 50-90% off your city's best! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d838a0792c1f2113e9st06vuc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:49:43 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... Yes, hydraulic lifters, that also helps understand the noise it made when dying. It was an animal noise she said, like a whining or whistling. So the lifters lost pressure and collapsed not allowing the valves to fully open or close. Seems like the design has several built in fail safes, and when running with amsoil synthetic even less chance of catastrophic failure. Glad I didn't have dino oil in there, the chance of spinning a bearing would have been much greater. The cling factor of synthetic protected the engine until the rings swelled and the valves collapsed. Simple design, timing chain and synthetics. Hoping and praying the analysis is correct, have no reason to doubt otherwise. Have experienced total oil loss in another Diesel that had hydraulic lifters and timing chain and amsoil. Busy with work might have time to research more later today. Must deal with microsoft issues now, far worse than a diesel with no oil. :) john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Alec Cordova Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 09:07:13 To: john Cc: Subject: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... Wasn't the OM617 the last one with solid lifters? So yours would have hydraulic ones that appear to still work. Remember not to completely trust the dash gauge for oil pressure. I had the sender die on my M103 gasser. Well, almost die, where it would only reach 1 bar of oil pressure above 3 or 4 thousand RPM. That'll put the fear of You Know Who in you. Either way, sounds like you'll need to open things up to identify the failure, so Shadowfax is definitely benched for a little while. Alec On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:28 PM, john wrote: > after charging it a bit, it cranked normal speed in the drive... didn't > let it start... my son had it running on the freeway, but it didn't feel > right and at the slightest load it quit... no funny sounds... he was > a Diesel mechanic in the air force... he should know what bad bearings > would sound like... and there was ZERO oil pressure... > > valves move... that tells me, oil pump or flow... internal seals? > > analysis to follow... this isn't exactly a popcorn adventure, it's > like two steps back... no fun in this, unless I can increase power, > economy or add landing lights or something along those lines. > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 18 Mar 2011, jasonbassett@juno.com wrote: > > # I'll give you that it sounds like a reasonable theory, but how does one fix > # it? Are you saying that the engine will loosen up once it's cooled? > # > # Pretty easy theory to test. ;D And I'm with Alec....impressin' comin' if your > # pump was bad and the bearings are OK. > # > # Jason > # > # ---------- Original Message ---------- > # From: john > # To: "Alec Cordova" > # Cc: "dbl" ,"Dave" > # Subject: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... > # Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:35:27 +0000 > # > # Since it wasn't making horrible rattling noises, turns over slowly and died > # slowly expanded rings due to heat seems probable. > # > # john at http://wagoneers.com > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: Alec Cordova > # Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:28:58 > # To: > # Cc: dbl > # Subject: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... > # > # If it was the oil pump and you fix it and it comes out OK, I'll be > # mighty impressed with that amsoil stuff. > # I'll light some popcorn-scented candles when I get home. > # > # Good luck, > # Alec > # > # On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:25 PM, john wrote: > # > It's running amsoil so the bearings are probably fine, the rings probably > # swelled with heat and caused it to seize, but not completely. Heard of stories > # like this before, if it was the oil pump and I fix it it will likely be ok. > # > > # > We'll see. > # > john at http://wagoneers.com > # > > # > -----Original Message----- > # > From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" > # > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > # > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:16:15 > # > To: > # > Subject: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the > # > WJ... > # > > # > Sorry to hear about that. It sounds like lubrication failure (probably the > # oil > # > pump), not cooling failure. You probably wiped out the bottom end in the > # > process, hence slow cranking. > # > > # > If the pistons are all good, perhaps you could get away with just redoing > # the > # > bearings on the crank, but......why would you fix just that when you have > # it > # > apart? > # > > # > Honestly, I'm surprised to hear YOU, the Meister, say that you aren't sure > # you > # > want to work on a diesel Benz! ROFL! > # > > # > Jason > # > > # > ---------- Original Message ---------- > # > From: john > # > To: undisclosed-recipients: ; > # > Subject: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later with the WJ... > # > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 14:47:40 -0700 (PDT) > # > > # > wife was driving south on I-405 and the '91 300D just quit... > # > she got it onto the shoulder... 0 oil pressure... > # > funny noise, kind of a wheezing or whining sound... animal noise sort > # of... > # > (???) > # > > # > stupid phone wasn't working in the building but finally stepped out of the > # lab > # > and got her call... > # > > # > my son went down and gave her his '85 300D and then waited for me... so we > # > pulled it off > # > the freeway into a nearby park-n-ride with the VW TDI, took my tools out of > # > the 300d and left it. > # > > # > going down later tonight with the WJ to retrieve it... however the WJ's > # > radiator has shown > # > signs of leaking now... argghhhh... was showing it to someone (it's for > # sale, > # > or was) and pulled > # > it into a shop... then we both noticed a little green puddle under it... > # well, > # > at least I know > # > now that it wasn't the heater core... need to flush the system and replace > # the > # > rad... > # > > # > not sure what's up with the '91 300D... has oil, coolant, does crank, > # albeit > # > very slowly... definitely > # > not a fuel starvation issue... 0 oil pressure and slow cranking is not a > # good > # > thing. My son > # > was able to get it started and moved it a short distance before it died > # > again... had oil analysis > # > done just a few years back, not many miles, came back all a's, one b. > # > > # > 268,000 or so miles... guess the ads I'm seeing for used early '90s 300Ds > # > with new engines > # > around the same mileage makes sense... not sure if a wrecking yard engine > # is > # > worth a try, not > # > sure I want to rebuild it... > # > > # > not sure what we're going to do yet... > # > > # > other than fix the WJ and drive it for grocery getting... and pay lot$ for > # ga$ > # > :( > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # >____________________________________________________________ > # > Groupon™ Official Site > # > 1 ridiculously huge coupon a day. Get 50-90% off your city's best! > # > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d828866ad45a1ece3est06vuc > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... The third engine on the second link lists an engine from a '92 "I have 1992 300D Diesel Mercedes parting out. " Quick! Check it out! ;) Jim - --- On Thu, 3/17/11, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... > To: "Jim Blair-email" , "dbl" > Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 10:53 PM > Need a 602.962 engine, 90-93 only. > > Not sure if anything else would work because they pretty > much build the car around the engine. > > > john at http://wagoneers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Blair > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:46:01 > To: local Jeep list; > john > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag > home later with > the WJ... > > > Think maybe she sucked a ferret up into the aircleaner? > (remember, she was passing near Bellevue, aka the land of > the weasels!) > > $1200 used motor > http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/2262440992.html > > Parting 300D > http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/pts/2260107089.html > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 > Jeep J10 > > > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:04:52 -0700 > > From: john@wagoneers.com > > To: eric_ditwiler@hmc.edu > > Subject: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag > home later with the WJ... > > > > rescue of the '91 300D began around 6pm... drove down, > hooked up and dragged > > it home on the back roads during rush hour... happy to > report we were NOT > > a bottleneck... :) the 4.7L v8 in that WJ has > plenty of happy power... > > > > > > suspect an oil pump issue at this point. the car > looks great... I can't > > see parting it... but if I can't fix it for less than > about $500 it's doomed... > > > > my son and I were doing the speed limit in rush > hour... WJ powering along... > > got a little exciting going down hills, the 124 could > stop both of us though, > > even without power assist... > > > > > > after getting the aged benz home and tossing it on a > battery charger for a few minutes > > it cranked more quickly... valves ARE turning... of > course there wasn't enough > > juice in the battery after 15 miles of 4-ways and > prior cranking... > > > > > > it's in it's normal parking space... what's > interesting is that I tried > > to rent a dolly, $60... but they closed 15 minutes > before I called... > > called a tow outfit... $175 minimum!!! (to tow > 15 miles!!!) > > > > called the dealer, oil pump isn't even available in > Germany, $375... that > > tells me they don't fail... > > > > aurora auto wrecking looked for an engine... there's > one in Minnesota for around $2k, > > typically these engines go for $1200 on up... > > > > so, we'll see... since it turns, the valves move and > it didn't make horrible sounds, > > was running amsoil and my wife and son did not abuse > it when it was dying, there's > > a very good likelihood of recovery. > > > > anyone in the area have a compression tester for > Diesels? after I get it going > > will want to do a test to make sure all the rings are > good... would hate to > > have it run away because of a broken ring a few weeks > after fixing it. > > > > looks like the WJ is back in business... needs a > radiator or at least leak stop... > > > > so I guess I'll be replacing it, tuning it up... > used 1/4 tank of gas driving > > it to work once and recovering the benz... about 50 > miles total... > > > > not sure what a rust free, clean '91 124 body would be > worth with a dead engine... > > > > john > > > > > > ----- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington > -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2011, Eric Ditwiler wrote: > > > > # with a full battery? > > # > > # Does it crank faster with injectors or glow > plugs removed? > > # > > # What are you thinking? Spun Bearing? > > # > > # > > # Eric Ditwiler > > # > > # On Mar 17, 2011, at 2:51 PM, john wrote: > > # > > # > it won't crank... turns over slowly... > > # > > > # > > > # > > > # > ----- > > # > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # > Snohomish, Washington > -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > # > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # > > > # > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:51:30 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... Thanx. Don't think I'll need it. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hoffman Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:48:41 To: Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... The third engine on the second link lists an engine from a '92 "I have 1992 300D Diesel Mercedes parting out. " Quick! Check it out! ;) Jim - --- On Thu, 3/17/11, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag home later withthe WJ... > To: "Jim Blair-email" , "dbl" > Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 10:53 PM > Need a 602.962 engine, 90-93 only. > > Not sure if anything else would work because they pretty > much build the car around the engine. > > > john at http://wagoneers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Blair > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:46:01 > To: local Jeep list; > john > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag > home later with > the WJ... > > > Think maybe she sucked a ferret up into the aircleaner? > (remember, she was passing near Bellevue, aka the land of > the weasels!) > > $1200 used motor > http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/2262440992.html > > Parting 300D > http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/pts/2260107089.html > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 > Jeep J10 > > > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 20:04:52 -0700 > > From: john@wagoneers.com > > To: eric_ditwiler@hmc.edu > > Subject: fsj: Re: [db] mercedes kaput - going to drag > home later with the WJ... > > > > rescue of the '91 300D began around 6pm... drove down, > hooked up and dragged > > it home on the back roads during rush hour... happy to > report we were NOT > > a bottleneck... :) the 4.7L v8 in that WJ has > plenty of happy power... > > > > > > suspect an oil pump issue at this point. the car > looks great... I can't > > see parting it... but if I can't fix it for less than > about $500 it's doomed... > > > > my son and I were doing the speed limit in rush > hour... WJ powering along... > > got a little exciting going down hills, the 124 could > stop both of us though, > > even without power assist... > > > > > > after getting the aged benz home and tossing it on a > battery charger for a few minutes > > it cranked more quickly... valves ARE turning... of > course there wasn't enough > > juice in the battery after 15 miles of 4-ways and > prior cranking... > > > > > > it's in it's normal parking space... what's > interesting is that I tried > > to rent a dolly, $60... but they closed 15 minutes > before I called... > > called a tow outfit... $175 minimum!!! (to tow > 15 miles!!!) > > > > called the dealer, oil pump isn't even available in > Germany, $375... that > > tells me they don't fail... > > > > aurora auto wrecking looked for an engine... there's > one in Minnesota for around $2k, > > typically these engines go for $1200 on up... > > > > so, we'll see... since it turns, the valves move and > it didn't make horrible sounds, > > was running amsoil and my wife and son did not abuse > it when it was dying, there's > > a very good likelihood of recovery. > > > > anyone in the area have a compression tester for > Diesels? after I get it going > > will want to do a test to make sure all the rings are > good... would hate to > > have it run away because of a broken ring a few weeks > after fixing it. > > > > looks like the WJ is back in business... needs a > radiator or at least leak stop... > > > > so I guess I'll be replacing it, tuning it up... > used 1/4 tank of gas driving > > it to work once and recovering the benz... about 50 > miles total... > > > > not sure what a rust free, clean '91 124 body would be > worth with a dead engine... > > > > john > > > > > > ----- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington > -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2011, Eric Ditwiler wrote: > > > > # with a full battery? > > # > > # Does it crank faster with injectors or glow > plugs removed? > > # > > # What are you thinking? Spun Bearing? > > # > > # > > # Eric Ditwiler > > # > > # On Mar 17, 2011, at 2:51 PM, john wrote: > > # > > # > it won't crank... turns over slowly... > > # > > > # > > > # > > > # > ----- > > # > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # > Snohomish, Washington > -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > # > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > # > > > # > ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3416 **********************************