From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Mar 29 22:38:45 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, March 30 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3426 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] time to go car shopping... Re: [db] time to go car shopping... RE: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall RE: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] time to go car shopping... I'm not so sure I should have asked for help... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Jim Hoffman wrote: # You're kidding, right?? I think this one would be more his style: # http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2294388286.html # # ;) # # Jim # # --- On Tue, # 3/29/11, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # # > From: Edward Pomeroy # # > Subject: Re: [db] time to go car shopping... # > To: # "john" # > Cc: "'Benz List'" # > # Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 9:04 PM # > Here you go John # > # > # http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2292212671.html # > # > # > # > On 3/29/2011 # 9:02 PM, john wrote: # > > just got back from the shop... the '91 300D is # > # toast... # > > # > > # > > it appears to have spit up a crank bearing... # > > they # pulled the pan today and found chunks of metal # > from the oil pump chain, but # > > there were also pieces of brass in there that looked # > like crank bearing # material. # > > # > > ...losing an oil pump at 60mph in a turbo Diesel is # > not # usually a good thing... we may # > > try to stuff a new chain on the oil pump # and see what # > happens... to rebuild it would # > > cost up to 5K. A # replacement engine can be had # > for about 2k, with another 1k to # > > # install... into a car worth maybe 4k... :( we'll # > see if my son can get it # running # > > and how well it does... not optimistic after seeing # > the debris # field. # > > # > > # > > So, I'll be putting the tires on my VW Jetta (same # > size, # new Pirellis), pulling the # > > stereo, Euro headlights, alarm system and maybe # the # > seats... # > > # > > the car has 268,000 miles on it... has been quite a # > # good car... but the a/c leaked and # > > the cruise didn't work... we've had # to for seven # > years... put over 100k on it... got our # > > money's worth... # this is the first time it's failed # > us... # > > # > > # > > # > > SO, WHAT ARE THE # RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A "NEW" CAR that # > is: # > > # > > - not a clunker # > > # - doesn't have a lot of miles # > > - is an automatic # > > - maybe all # wheel or 4 wd # > > - gets reasonable economy (over 20 # > mpg in town) # > > # - likely a 4dr # > > - has a/c # > > - is respectable # > > - is # reliable # > > - is clean # > > # > > If I could find a decent car around $4k # that would be # > great... but I'm thinking we'll # > > end up spending more than # that... We started to lament # > the sale of the WJ but the # > > mechanic at the # shop said I did a good thing, the # > 4.7's are starting to get a very # > > bad # reputaion... although the one we had was and is # > superb... but he makes a # good # > > point, and the economy was horrible in town. # > > # > > # > > VERY # IMPORTANT, WHAT SHOULD WE AVOID? - brands, # > models, years? (know to avoid # '96-'03 # > Mercedes) # > > # > > # > > What would you recommend? # > > # > > I'm open to # ideas and ignorant about most vehicles # > except older mercedes and jeeps... # not likely # > > we'll get another Jeep... maybe another mercedes # > Diesel... # but considering that this will be my # > > wife's car I don't think we can # afford what she'd be # > willing to drive. # > > # > > Meanwhile the Jetta Wagon is # doing fine... # > unfortunately it's a stick, wife can't drive a stick # > > and # has no interest in learning how to do so... I # > taught her in Germany how to # drive the BMW... after # > > a few near death experiences we agreed she should # > # drive an automatic... :) I prefer automatics as well. # > > # > > # > > thanx for # your advice, warnings and leads... we have a # > couple of free tickets on # alaska and would be # > > willing to fly out and drive back... # > > # > > john # > > # > > # > > ----- # > > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > > # Snohomish, Washington # > -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > si vis pacem, para bellum # > > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:09:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] time to go car shopping... I actually have a transmission for this... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Or this one! You can put in a tranny! # # :) # http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2294232479.html # # Jim # # --- On Tue, # 3/29/11, john wrote: # # > From: john # > # Subject: [db] time to go car shopping... # > To: # > Date: Tuesday, March 29, # 2011, 8:02 PM # > just got back from the shop... # > the '91 300D is toast... # > # > # > it appears to have spit up a crank bearing... # > they pulled the pan today # and found chunks of metal from # > the oil pump chain, but # > there were also # pieces of brass in there that looked like # > crank bearing material. # > # > # ...losing an oil pump at 60mph in a turbo Diesel is not # > usually a good # thing... we may # > try to stuff a new chain on the oil pump and see what # > # happens... to rebuild it would # > cost up to 5K. A replacement engine can be # had for # > about 2k, with another 1k to # > install... into a car worth maybe # 4k... :( we'll see # > if my son can get it running # > and how well it does... # not optimistic after seeing the # > debris field. # > # > # > So, I'll be putting # the tires on my VW Jetta (same size, # > new Pirellis), pulling the # > stereo, # Euro headlights, alarm system and maybe the # > seats... # > # > the car has # 268,000 miles on it... has been quite a good # > car... but the a/c leaked and # > the cruise didn't work... we've had to for seven # > years... put over 100k # on it... got our # > money's worth... this is the first time it's failed us... # > # > # > # > SO, WHAT ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A "NEW" CAR that is: # > # > - # not a clunker # > - doesn't have a lot of miles # > - is an automatic # > # - maybe all wheel or 4 wd # > - gets reasonable economy (over 20 mpg # > # in town) # > - likely a 4dr # > - has a/c # > - is respectable # > - # is reliable # > - is clean # > # > If I could find a decent car around $4k that # would be # > great... but I'm thinking we'll # > end up spending more than that... # We started to lament the # > sale of the WJ but the # > mechanic at the shop said # I did a good thing, the 4.7's are # > starting to get a very # > bad reputaion... # although the one we had was and is # > superb... but he makes a good # > point, # and the economy was horrible in town. # > # > # > VERY IMPORTANT, WHAT SHOULD WE # AVOID? - brands, # > models, years? (know to avoid '96-'03 # > Mercedes) # > # > # > What would you recommend? # > # > I'm open to ideas and ignorant about most # vehicles except # > older mercedes and jeeps... not likely # > we'll get another # Jeep... maybe another mercedes Diesel... # > but considering that this will be # my # > wife's car I don't think we can afford what she'd be # > willing to drive. # > # > Meanwhile the Jetta Wagon is doing fine... # > unfortunately it's a stick, # wife can't drive a stick # > and has no interest in learning how to do so... I # taught # > her in Germany how to drive the BMW... after # > a few near death # experiences we agreed she should drive an # > automatic... :) I prefer # automatics as well. # > # > # > thanx for your advice, warnings and leads... we # have a # > couple of free tickets on alaska and would be # > willing to fly out # and drive back... # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where # > Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > si vis pacem, para bellum # > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:05:26 -0700 From: "Nick Eckert" Subject: RE: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall John, I am sorry for your loss. After I heard about your cars ailment I looked at the engine schematic and the oil pump chain came to mind based on your description of the problem. My W123 lost it's timing chain at 312,000 miles and I am at 279,000 on my W124. After doing some surfing 300,000 seems to be a real magical number for MB diesels and timing chain issues. MB recommends checking the timing chain and sprockets for wear, but I can tell you that it can go from being a perfectly happy running engine to being a pile of pieces with only about 2-3 miles after starting to hear chain slap. Barely long enough to get safely to the side of the road. If you're driving your car and suddenly you hear a loud metal slapping noise on throttle that goes away when you lift your foot off the gas. Shut it off immediately and coast to the side of the road, call a tow truck and don't let the shop start it before pulling the timing cover and checking the chain. When I bring the Benz in on Thursday for the recall work I am going to ask them the cost to replace the timing chain, oil pump chain, and all the sprockets, lands, and guides on the front of the engine. I have heard it is about a $1300 job, but well worth it from my experiences and what I have read. As far as a rubber band engine goes, I have had timing belts break also. Had one break in less than 1,000 miles after having it replaced on a VW Golf. The shop rebuilt the engine at their cost. Had that car from mile 6 to mile 332,000. Only reason I don't have it anymore is because Camp Pendelton MWR thought I had abandoned it while I was stationed overseas for two years following 9/11 and sold it for scrap, (It was a good runner and the staff all said I had been deployed on a moments notice to no avail.) In all honesty, if your wife likes the car, get it rebuilt or put in a rebuilt engine. You can source them out of Germany, just run the web pages through babelfish. Maybe you can even upgrade to a 6 cylinder engine. I have bought multiple engines from overseas and had them air freighted in. Spend about the same amount on the W124 as you would on a good running used car, but you'll have one you're familiar with, rather than an unknown commodity. Get the A/C fixed. It will be a few bucks, but I think you'll be happier in the long run. Besides, what is the diesel Benz list worth if the guy sponsoring it doesn't have a diesel Benz? Cheers, Nick - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john@wagoneers.com] Sent: Tue 3/29/2011 7:39 PM To: Edward Pomeroy Cc: john; Nick Eckert; owner-diesel-benz@digest.net; diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall guess it doesn't matter unless I can find a replacement engine... my throttle linkage works... interested in parts? ;) john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:38:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall thanx Nick. I'm going to let my son fiddle with it a bit, but my wife wants something newer... it's been a great car, but it is old. I'm not interested in getting a newer benz because of the quality issues. I am still interested in putting a Mercedes Diesel into a Wrangler... but right now things aren't lining up very well, hard to find a good engine... I'm not convinced the engine is completely trashed, but I did see metal in the pan... most of it was oil chain parts, but there was enough bearing material available to indicate that something wasn't happy. I think I'm just going to clean the car up and try to sell it whole for maybe a grand... it's in great shape... would love to put my stock headlights back in and sell the euro lights separately but I think I gave them away to friends. :) I'm going to swap the stereo into my J10 and pull the alarm system. Have new Continentals on the Jetta and new Pirelli's on the benz, that situation will be reversed. :) there isn't much else on the car that I could sell off... it's a great color inside and out... I will shop around for an engine before giving up completely... the timing chain was going to run close to $1500 at an independent shop charging $90/hr... the dealer charges at least 125/hr and you'll pay more for the parts. The a/c pump is problematic in the 124s... even rebuilt they don't do well... replaced that one once. If I can find another engine that will fit in there I'll go for it... a running car is easier to sell than one that has to be towed away... ;) When I talked to Aurora they said the nearest engine was in Minnesota, $2100. I do know where there's a couple of 124 Diesels sitting around... only problem is it would take an hour or more to pull the engine... ;) I'm not disappointed, discouraged or unhappy... got 267,000 miles out of this car without any problems, extraordinary economy and power... it was a good ride, it's too bad that it would take $3-5k to make it whole again... when it's worth maybe 4k. That other 124 is still for sale in Auburn, 3995. "new" engine... the guy said something about new rings and bearings, but it didn't sound like it was a well done job... showed my wife the pictures and she said... no... she says that a lot about the cars I'm finding... ;) the hard part of this will be finding a decent car for her... I've got my J10 and the Jetta... so this has to be nice. Oh, did find a couple Passats and 4motion VWs under 8k that I'm going to look at... at this point I'll live with a VW automatic transmission, just kind of factor in a rebuild... (need to check on the cost)... she's not excited about another car like mine... a passat is pretty close, but a little nicer... she also said no more grand cherokees, they're just too thirsty... although if we hadn't sold the WJ last week we wouldn't have a problem, well, other than paying more for fuel... but the mechanic said it was a good thing to part with the WJ, guess the 4.7s have issues with heads later in life... sad, that 4.7 is a sweet motor... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ vehicle city/hwy engine/trans/xfr - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2003 VW Jetta GLS Wagon TDI 40/48 mpg 1.9L TDI/5spd 1983 Jeep J10 long box (SJ) ??/15 mpg 5.9L AT/NP208 (best mpg 17.68) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- recently departed: parting/for sale: 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 30/39 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg)- under construction since 1999 getting '80 Scout SD33T Diesel, TF727/NP208 mpg: 20/24 expected -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Nick Eckert wrote: # John, # # I am sorry for your loss. # # After I heard about your cars ailment I looked at the engine schematic and the oil pump chain came to mind based on your description of the problem. # # My W123 lost it's timing chain at 312,000 miles and I am at 279,000 on my W124. After doing some surfing 300,000 seems to be a real magical number for MB diesels and timing chain issues. MB recommends checking the timing chain and sprockets for wear, but I can tell you that it can go from being a perfectly happy running engine to being a pile of pieces with only about 2-3 miles after starting to hear chain slap. Barely long enough to get safely to the side of the road. If you're driving your car and suddenly you hear a loud metal slapping noise on throttle that goes away when you lift your foot off the gas. Shut it off immediately and coast to the side of the road, call a tow truck and don't let the shop start it before pulling the timing cover and checking the chain. # # When I bring the Benz in on Thursday for the recall work I am going to ask them the cost to replace the timing chain, oil pump chain, and all the sprockets, lands, and guides on the front of the engine. I have heard it is about a $1300 job, but well worth it from my experiences and what I have read. # # As far as a rubber band engine goes, I have had timing belts break also. Had one break in less than 1,000 miles after having it replaced on a VW Golf. The shop rebuilt the engine at their cost. Had that car from mile 6 to mile 332,000. Only reason I don't have it anymore is because Camp Pendelton MWR thought I had abandoned it while I was stationed overseas for two years following 9/11 and sold it for scrap, (It was a good runner and the staff all said I had been deployed on a moments notice to no avail.) # # In all honesty, if your wife likes the car, get it rebuilt or put in a rebuilt engine. You can source them out of Germany, just run the web pages through babelfish. Maybe you can even upgrade to a 6 cylinder engine. I have bought multiple engines from overseas and had them air freighted in. Spend about the same amount on the W124 as you would on a good running used car, but you'll have one you're familiar with, rather than an unknown commodity. Get the A/C fixed. It will be a few bucks, but I think you'll be happier in the long run. Besides, what is the diesel Benz list worth if the guy sponsoring it doesn't have a diesel Benz? # # Cheers, # # Nick # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john@wagoneers.com] # Sent: Tue 3/29/2011 7:39 PM # To: Edward Pomeroy # Cc: john; Nick Eckert; owner-diesel-benz@digest.net; diesel-benz-digest@digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] 1991 2.5 W124 Throttle Linkage Recall # # guess it doesn't matter unless I can find a replacement engine... # # my throttle linkage works... interested in parts? ;) # # john # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3426 **********************************