From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Apr 12 10:37:06 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, April 12 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3429 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] W210s 96-03 Diesels - questions - panic refresh needed Re: [db] W210s 96-03 Diesels - questions - panic refresh needed Re: [db] 1985 190D -- for sale Re: [db] 1985 190D -- for sale Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:14:58 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] W210s 96-03 Diesels - questions - panic refresh needed I test drove a 1995 300D, which stylistically certainly looked like a W124, back in mid-1995. So, they definitely had them in the 1995 model year and literal year. Didn't buy it, because I felt the interior was chintzy and dated, especially for $40k. Ended up going with a '95 Subaru Legacy wagon for $19k. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Mon Apr 11, 2011, John Meister wrote: > > now I'm even more confused... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W124 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W210 > > apparently there was overlap in the years... I thought I saw '95 124s... > > > isn't finding a decent, affordable, reliable and economical vehicle supposed to get easier with newer technology???? > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, john wrote: > > # they never imported a VM Motori Grand Cherokee, that was in the WJ in Europe > # only. > # > # the V6 CRD was in the 2007-2008 WKs. real benz... > # > # wasn't the '95 a 124? > # > # the '96 was the first W210, right??? > # > # solved by '97? then why did Mike Frank have trouble with is '99? > # > # are there any DIESEL W210 owners on the list that can provide guidance? > # > # I know there were lots of electronic issues as noted by Mike, but want to know > # how the Diesels fared. > # Have seen a few that were clearly frequent visitors to shops... > # > # thanx all, > # john > # > # > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > # tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Alec Cordova wrote: > # > # # An 07 Diesel Grand Cherokee might be that VM Motori unit. I don't > # # remember if they ever gave the US a true Mercedes diesel in the Jeeps. > # # > # # On the w210s, > # # Wiring was centered around the 95 model year. introduced on various > # # gas and diesel engines leading up to 95. i think all models were under > # # the gun for 95. Solved by 97. > # # > # # I don't remember the discussions about wheel studs and corrosion. Just > # # be careful about mixing your metals, aka, avoid blinged out chrome > # # wheels. > # # > # # AFAIK, there are many happy W210 owners. I just don't know how many of > # # them spent any quality time with W124 or W126 models before their > # # W210, so they may have different expectations for their Benz. > # # > # # Good luck, > # # Alec > # # > # # On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:58 PM, john wrote: > # # > ok, > # # > > # # > need a refresher course on w210s... > # # > > # # > there are two Diesels available in the 5k range... > # # > > # # > > # # > Specifically the issues are supposed to be: > # # > > # # > - wiring - underhood wiring supposedly biodegradeable... can cost $1800 > # to replace... > # # > - stock radio issues - "upgraded" to an aftermarket solve the problem? > # # > - wheel studs/corrosion - how can this be resolved? > # # > - fuel lines and fittings - lots of brittle plastic - any upgrades to fix > # this? > # # > - headlight covers/yellow-fog - this is a pretty common thing on all the > # newer cars... not a big deal... > # # > - windows issues, motors/switches... typical benz issues as far as I'm > # concerned, or is it worse? > # # > > # # > > # # > need to be frightened, very frightened... :) or, if the issues above and > # any other Diesel issues > # # > addressed can be resolved by aftermarket products, factory upgrades or > # simple backyard engineering, > # # > I'll go for it... we miss our Diesel Benz... > # # > > # # > > # # > and yes, the transplant to things japanese is not taking root with meine > # frau... I never considered > # # > the interiors of mercedes to be all that "luxurious", and I really don't > # consider the toy to be > # # > all that bad, who looks at the dash, other than the instruments anyway? > # :) I'm not really excited > # # > about taking a long trip in my jetta either... and I'm not convinced a > # 201 will be accepted as > # # > readily as a 124 or a 210... old is not necessarily good... when one is > # spoiled... and sadly all > # # > the 124s I'm finding have the same kind of mileage as our dearly > # departed... > # # > > # # > anyway... I'm at a low-level look and see... will have to wait for the > # title to show up before we > # # > can get rid of the toy... in that time it's good features may take > # root... it is easy to drive, > # # > great visibility, low miles and inherently reliable, and at 23 mpg in > # town quite impressive... if only > # # > Jeep could have done this, even with a smaller engine... I will say that > # while the rav moves out > # # > adequately, I do feel guilty listening to it rev up... it's clearly > # earning it's keep under that hood... > # # > the 4.7L V8 in the jeep never strained, even when attached to an > # equipment trailer hauling an full size > # # > jeep with around 8,000lbs back there... the rav would probably spit up > # all its fluid and there'd be > # # > a molten blob on the pavement underneath it... but that's ok, not asking > # it to be a jeep, or a truck... > # # > but meine frau does want it to look good and be reliable... one out of > # two ain't bad... > # # > > # # > found an '07 CRD Grand Cherokee... but I'm not excited about a further > # venture into the red, even > # # > if it does mean a Mercedes CRD under the bonnet... :) > # # > > # # > john > # # > > # # > > # # > ----- > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > # # > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > # # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # # > > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:22:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W210s 96-03 Diesels - questions - panic refresh needed was it different than your '93? I found a 2007 Grand Cherokee with the 3.0L CRD... showed it to my wife on line, she asked about the mileage... haven't heard from her yet... it's 17/22, combined 19. one test report stated 24 on the freeway... spending $20k+ for a used jeep to get that kind of mileage when we have a rav4 that gets 23/28 might be a hard sell... still considering another Diesel Benz and waiting to see if my wife accepts the rav4 or wants us to keep looking... from a purely rational standpoint the rav4 meets the needs... good visibility, good economy, respected reliability, all wheel drive, space... it looses out on looks/comfort/perception of quality... but it's got a timing chain and I can find the spark plugs... and with a stepping stool reach them... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # I test drove a 1995 300D, which stylistically certainly looked like a W124, back in mid-1995. So, they definitely had them in the 1995 model year and literal year. # # Didn't buy it, because I felt the interior was chintzy and dated, especially for $40k. Ended up going with a '95 Subaru Legacy wagon for $19k. # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Mon Apr 11, 2011, John Meister wrote: # > # > now I'm even more confused... # > # > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W124 # > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W210 # > # > apparently there was overlap in the years... I thought I saw '95 124s... # > # > # > isn't finding a decent, affordable, reliable and economical vehicle supposed to get easier with newer technology???? # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, john wrote: # > # > # they never imported a VM Motori Grand Cherokee, that was in the WJ in Europe # > # only. # > # # > # the V6 CRD was in the 2007-2008 WKs. real benz... # > # # > # wasn't the '95 a 124? # > # # > # the '96 was the first W210, right??? # > # # > # solved by '97? then why did Mike Frank have trouble with is '99? # > # # > # are there any DIESEL W210 owners on the list that can provide guidance? # > # # > # I know there were lots of electronic issues as noted by Mike, but want to know # > # how the Diesels fared. # > # Have seen a few that were clearly frequent visitors to shops... # > # # > # thanx all, # > # john # > # # > # # > # # > # ----- # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > # tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas # > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # > # # > # On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Alec Cordova wrote: # > # # > # # An 07 Diesel Grand Cherokee might be that VM Motori unit. I don't # > # # remember if they ever gave the US a true Mercedes diesel in the Jeeps. # > # # # > # # On the w210s, # > # # Wiring was centered around the 95 model year. introduced on various # > # # gas and diesel engines leading up to 95. i think all models were under # > # # the gun for 95. Solved by 97. # > # # # > # # I don't remember the discussions about wheel studs and corrosion. Just # > # # be careful about mixing your metals, aka, avoid blinged out chrome # > # # wheels. # > # # # > # # AFAIK, there are many happy W210 owners. I just don't know how many of # > # # them spent any quality time with W124 or W126 models before their # > # # W210, so they may have different expectations for their Benz. # > # # # > # # Good luck, # > # # Alec # > # # # > # # On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:58 PM, john wrote: # > # # > ok, # > # # > # > # # > need a refresher course on w210s... # > # # > # > # # > there are two Diesels available in the 5k range... # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > Specifically the issues are supposed to be: # > # # > # > # # > - wiring - underhood wiring supposedly biodegradeable... can cost $1800 # > # to replace... # > # # > - stock radio issues - "upgraded" to an aftermarket solve the problem? # > # # > - wheel studs/corrosion - how can this be resolved? # > # # > - fuel lines and fittings - lots of brittle plastic - any upgrades to fix # > # this? # > # # > - headlight covers/yellow-fog - this is a pretty common thing on all the # > # newer cars... not a big deal... # > # # > - windows issues, motors/switches... typical benz issues as far as I'm # > # concerned, or is it worse? # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > need to be frightened, very frightened... :) or, if the issues above and # > # any other Diesel issues # > # # > addressed can be resolved by aftermarket products, factory upgrades or # > # simple backyard engineering, # > # # > I'll go for it... we miss our Diesel Benz... # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > and yes, the transplant to things japanese is not taking root with meine # > # frau... I never considered # > # # > the interiors of mercedes to be all that "luxurious", and I really don't # > # consider the toy to be # > # # > all that bad, who looks at the dash, other than the instruments anyway? # > # :) I'm not really excited # > # # > about taking a long trip in my jetta either... and I'm not convinced a # > # 201 will be accepted as # > # # > readily as a 124 or a 210... old is not necessarily good... when one is # > # spoiled... and sadly all # > # # > the 124s I'm finding have the same kind of mileage as our dearly # > # departed... # > # # > # > # # > anyway... I'm at a low-level look and see... will have to wait for the # > # title to show up before we # > # # > can get rid of the toy... in that time it's good features may take # > # root... it is easy to drive, # > # # > great visibility, low miles and inherently reliable, and at 23 mpg in # > # town quite impressive... if only # > # # > Jeep could have done this, even with a smaller engine... I will say that # > # while the rav moves out # > # # > adequately, I do feel guilty listening to it rev up... it's clearly # > # earning it's keep under that hood... # > # # > the 4.7L V8 in the jeep never strained, even when attached to an # > # equipment trailer hauling an full size # > # # > jeep with around 8,000lbs back there... the rav would probably spit up # > # all its fluid and there'd be # > # # > a molten blob on the pavement underneath it... but that's ok, not asking # > # it to be a jeep, or a truck... # > # # > but meine frau does want it to look good and be reliable... one out of # > # two ain't bad... # > # # > # > # # > found an '07 CRD Grand Cherokee... but I'm not excited about a further # > # venture into the red, even # > # # > if it does mean a Mercedes CRD under the bonnet... :) # > # # > # > # # > john # > # # > # > # # > # > # # > ----- # > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > # # > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas # > # # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # > # > # # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:14:04 -0500 From: Jon Filina Subject: Re: [db] 1985 190D -- for sale John, Didn't your better half refer to your last 190D as "the weedeater"??? Jon John wrote: > excellent. > > we're going to look at a 190D in the near future... my wife misses her mercedes. > not sure if a 201 will meet her expectations after years of piloting the 124. > > we miss our 124... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 10:36:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 1985 190D -- for sale I think I'd remember that one... that sounds like something one of our friends back east would have said... what's his name??? young kid... rats... name escapes me... he's travelled all over the east coast rescuing old benzes... :) jason? sadly the rav4 may be the best thing I could get for my wife... low miles, reliable, safe, all wheel drive, good visibility, plenty of room for plants in the back... any older mercedes we'd get would have issues... a/c mainly... wiring... sadly the rav4 should have none of those issues and provide an amazing 23 mpg in town... considering that the mercedes on biodiesel only did 26mpg that's pretty impressive... haven't done the math yet, but I think at the 50 cents plus extra tax put on Diesel by the democrats in this state that for costs it's a wash. one of the 190Ds I'm considering needs a/c repair, a windshield, has body and paint damage, unheated-non-power seats, an inoperative sunroof, an intermittent cruise control(what benz doesn't?) and who knows what other issues a 20+ year old low end German car would have... I'd be into it about 7k... at least... there are some mid-90's Diesels I'm also considering... but I fear the quality issues... again, likely to be in them 5-7k and have to deal with a bunch of nagging issues that might never be resolved... I fought the a/c on shadowfax for years... kept a can of r134 in the trunk with a quick disconnect hose... the cruise control would typically engage about the time I was getting into the deceleration lane for the exit... sadly, I had to lift my embargo against japanese vehicles to find something suitable... however, my embargo, in place since 1985 was effective in moving the japanese to number 3 in the global economy... so, out of compassion after the devasting earthquake and tsunami I felt it fair to lift the embargo, if they haven't learned their lesson they never will... and I'm tired of fixing old cars that I don't get to drive... :) btw, decided to fly out to chicago for my family reunion next month... rather than drive... hotel and fuel costs alone, even at 48 mpg would have been about $1200 or more... had two free round trip tickets with alaska, still cost me $95 and I have to subject us to the hassle of flying/security/deprivation of rights and comfort and even worse, have to be at the airport by 5am to come home... dread that... I'll be travelling with my wife so I won't be able to meet up with any car friends while I'm out there... wouldn't be any fun for her... don't want to go with out her either... any suggestions on sites to see in the Chicago area? Haven't been there since 1999. only going to have three or four days... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Jon Filina wrote: # John, # # Didn't your better half refer to your last 190D as "the weedeater"??? # # Jon # # John wrote: # > excellent. # > # > we're going to look at a 190D in the near future... my wife misses her # > mercedes. # > not sure if a 201 will meet her expectations after years of piloting the # > 124. # > # > we miss our 124... # > # > john # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3429 **********************************