From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Mon Oct 10 00:05:00 2011 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:05:19 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3503 diesel-benz-digest Monday, October 10 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3503 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 300D still won't start Re: [db] euro lights Re: [db] 300D still won't start Re: [db] euro lights Re: [db] 300D still won't start Re: [db] 300D still won't start Re: [db] 300D still won't start [db] Just for John Re: [db] Just for John Re: [db] euro lights Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 23:33:59 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: [db] 300D still won't start Think the new starter is bad? There's not much involved. Solenoid and cables. Replace the battery cables and see if that doesn't help. Did you test the old starter when you had it out? Did you test the new starter before installing? Either way bad cables or connectors could do the same thing, even a defective battery. Assuming of course the starter is ok. Also, is your ground to the engine and body good? - ------Original Message------ From: Jerry Kaidor Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: dbl ReplyTo: jerry@tr2.com Subject: [db] 300D still won't start Sent: Oct 9, 2011 16:32 Hello! As you may recall, my '85 300D was having intermittant starting problems. Sometimes it would crank, sometimes not. I had decided that the problem was probably the starter itself. So I replaced it. A dirty miserable job it was, too. I had the battery on a trickle charge for the past week. And guess what? You can hear it coming, right? The @#$@# car still doesn't start! Now, there's a click and the lights dim a little ( but not much ). When I hit the starter connection directly with a piece of wire at the firewall, it *sometimes* cranks, but not always. Voltmeter at the firewall connection says that when I try to start with the key, it sees around 9.5V. If I bridge the connections at the firewall with a short wire, it looks more like 10.5V ( if it only clicks ) and 11.25V ( if it actually cranks ). The battery seems reasonably healthy - 12.5V with no charger on line. I'm at the point of giving up on this thing and just driving it to the local independant Benz mechanic. I just have no time to futz - we're moving.... - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com ) __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:42:48 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] euro lights How much? One of my lights could use relacing (keeps having bulbs and such get loose until I smack them), and both sides' plastic lenses are all crackled and such. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Sun Oct 09, 2011, John Meister wrote: > > anyone interested in real euro lights for a 124? > > how about a pair of the stock lights for a 124, with wiper? > > > the guy that bought shadowfax just upgraded the car to a '95 hood and lights > and offered me the euro lights. > > I bought new euro lights off of ebay and have my original lights and turn signals to sell. > > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2011 22:02:48 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] 300D still won't start Had a similar symptom on my Jaguar - replaced all the ground straps from block to body to battery and the problem went away. Bad grounds or cables that corrode inside the terminals make high resistance path and the starter won't crank Check those and that all bolts are tight and face to body of connectors free of corrosion. Edward On 10/9/2011 7:33 PM, john wrote: > Think the new starter is bad? > > There's not much involved. Solenoid and cables. Replace the battery cables and see if that doesn't help. > > Did you test the old starter when you had it out? Did you test the new starter before installing? > > Either way bad cables or connectors could do the same thing, even a defective battery. > > Assuming of course the starter is ok. > > Also, is your ground to the engine and body good? > > > ------Original Message------ > From: Jerry Kaidor > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: dbl > ReplyTo: jerry@tr2.com > Subject: [db] 300D still won't start > Sent: Oct 9, 2011 16:32 > > Hello! > > As you may recall, my '85 300D was having intermittant starting > problems. Sometimes it would crank, sometimes not. I had decided that > the problem was probably the starter itself. So I replaced it. A > dirty miserable job it was, too. I had the battery on a trickle charge > for the past week. > > And guess what? You can hear it coming, right? The @#$@# car still > doesn't start! Now, there's a click and the lights dim a little ( but > not much ). When I hit the starter connection directly with a piece of > wire at the firewall, it *sometimes* cranks, but not always. > > Voltmeter at the firewall connection says that when I try to start with > the key, it sees around 9.5V. If I bridge the connections at the > firewall with a short wire, it looks more like 10.5V ( if it only clicks > ) and 11.25V ( if it actually cranks ). > > The battery seems reasonably healthy - 12.5V with no charger on line. > > I'm at the point of giving up on this thing and just driving it to the > local independant Benz mechanic. I just have no time to futz - we're > moving.... > > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com ) > > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] euro lights The guy will sell the euros off of shadowfax for $150 now, he started out at $350 because he didn't know... I think I paid $250 for mine from Europe including shipping... but I was able to find a pair of new euros with turn lights for right at $200 with shipping. Although I think the ones that were on shadowfax may be superior quality to the ones I bought... but I'm not going to swap them around, happy with what I have. talked to aurora, they sell the stock lights for $150 each, not sure if that includes the wiper or not... turn indicators $65. let me know... otherwise I'll put mine up on ebay... will put up some pictures later... I think there are some minor rock chips on mine so the price might be less... I need to replace the driver's seat on my '87 300D or get the shop to fix it better... have the car up on CL/ebay for $6500, have about $7k into it at this point but am ready to consider any serious offers... I need to test drive a TJ Wrangler... otherwise I'll get another VW TDI, actually found a couple of wagons with automatics... I liked the way the wagon was setup, could put a tool pouch in the opening in the back, back in, open the tailgate, then flip part of the floor up and access all my tools with cover... worked well. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 9 Oct 2011, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # How much? One of my lights could use relacing (keeps having bulbs and such get loose until I smack them), and both sides' plastic lenses are all crackled and such. # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] # # # On Sun Oct 09, 2011, John Meister wrote: # > # > anyone interested in real euro lights for a 124? # > # > how about a pair of the stock lights for a 124, with wiper? # > # > # > the guy that bought shadowfax just upgraded the car to a '95 hood and lights # > and offered me the euro lights. # > # > I bought new euro lights off of ebay and have my original lights and turn signals to sell. # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 300D still won't start part of the reason is without current flowing the voltages will seem all happy and cozy, but once you start pumping a lot of electrons through that cable they get all surly and ornery trying to squeeze through the few points of contact or the remaining connected strands of copper... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 9 Oct 2011, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # Had a similar symptom on my Jaguar - replaced all the ground straps from # block to body to battery and the problem went away. Bad grounds or cables # that corrode inside the terminals make high resistance path and the starter # won't crank # # Check those and that all bolts are tight and face to body of connectors free # of corrosion. # # Edward # # # On 10/9/2011 7:33 PM, john wrote: # > Think the new starter is bad? # > # > There's not much involved. Solenoid and cables. Replace the battery cables # > and see if that doesn't help. # > # > Did you test the old starter when you had it out? Did you test the new # > starter before installing? # > # > Either way bad cables or connectors could do the same thing, even a # > defective battery. # > # > Assuming of course the starter is ok. # > # > Also, is your ground to the engine and body good? # > # > # > ------Original Message------ # > From: Jerry Kaidor # > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net # > To: dbl # > ReplyTo: jerry@tr2.com # > Subject: [db] 300D still won't start # > Sent: Oct 9, 2011 16:32 # > # > Hello! # > # > As you may recall, my '85 300D was having intermittant starting # > problems. Sometimes it would crank, sometimes not. I had decided that # > the problem was probably the starter itself. So I replaced it. A # > dirty miserable job it was, too. I had the battery on a trickle charge # > for the past week. # > # > And guess what? You can hear it coming, right? The @#$@# car still # > doesn't start! Now, there's a click and the lights dim a little ( but # > not much ). When I hit the starter connection directly with a piece of # > wire at the firewall, it *sometimes* cranks, but not always. # > # > Voltmeter at the firewall connection says that when I try to start with # > the key, it sees around 9.5V. If I bridge the connections at the # > firewall with a short wire, it looks more like 10.5V ( if it only clicks # > ) and 11.25V ( if it actually cranks ). # > # > The battery seems reasonably healthy - 12.5V with no charger on line. # > # > I'm at the point of giving up on this thing and just driving it to the # > local independant Benz mechanic. I just have no time to futz - we're # > moving.... # > # > - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com ) # > # > # > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:54:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jerry Kaidor" Subject: Re: [db] 300D still won't start > Had a similar symptom on my Jaguar - replaced all the ground straps from > block to body to battery and the problem went away. Bad grounds or > cables that corrode inside the terminals make high resistance path and > the starter won't crank *** Yeah, I was thinking about grounds today. If I had the time, I'd do just that. I'd replace the battery and do voltage drop tests all around the loop. Well, there's really two loops - the big loop for the real starter motor current, and the little loop for the solenoid. That loop goes through the ignition switch and the neutral safety switch. But since the starter is also intermittant using a big fat wire at the fender terminals, I don't really think the switches are the problem. They do, however exacerbate it. I vote for bad grounds. Just where is the engine ground strap, anyway? Around one of the motor mounts? Maybe I could test that theory with a big jumper cable clipped to the battery negative and to the starter body. Unfortunately, I have VERY little time to mess with this. We are moving. Starting tomorrow, the garage/shop comes apart. Many capabilities have already been temporarily lost. And it will take time before the new garage/shop comes together. Tomorrow we are scheduled for phone and Internet at the new house. Tuesday the office comes apart - PC's, servers, file cabinets. Wednesday the movers come for all the big furniture. Thursday is the piano movers and the satellite TV. Etc. So the local mechanic may get to mess with it instead of me. - Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 20:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 300D still won't start quickest way to fix your ground is buy a 36-48" ground wire with regular connection on both ends, attach one to the bolt that holds the clamp on the negative, and run it down to the engine or better starter bolt... that will likely solve it if you have a bad ground, otherwise you'll just replace the positive cable. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 9 Oct 2011, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # > Had a similar symptom on my Jaguar - replaced all the ground straps from # > block to body to battery and the problem went away. Bad grounds or # > cables that corrode inside the terminals make high resistance path and # > the starter won't crank # # *** Yeah, I was thinking about grounds today. # # If I had the time, I'd do just that. I'd replace the battery and # do voltage drop tests all around the loop. Well, there's really two # loops - the big loop for the real starter motor current, and the little # loop for the solenoid. That loop goes through the ignition switch and the # neutral safety switch. # # But since the starter is also intermittant using a big fat wire at the # fender terminals, I don't really think the switches are the problem. They # do, however exacerbate it. # # I vote for bad grounds. Just where is the engine ground strap, anyway? # Around one of the motor mounts? Maybe I could test that theory with a big # jumper cable clipped to the battery negative and to the starter body. # # Unfortunately, I have VERY little time to mess with this. We are # moving. Starting tomorrow, the garage/shop comes apart. Many # capabilities have already been temporarily lost. And it will take time # before the new garage/shop comes together. Tomorrow we are scheduled # for phone and Internet at the new house. Tuesday the office comes # apart - PC's, servers, file cabinets. Wednesday the movers come for # all the big furniture. Thursday is the piano movers and the satellite # TV. Etc. # # So the local mechanic may get to mess with it instead of me. # # - Jerry # # # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 22:48:45 -0700 From: chuck goolsbee Subject: [db] Just for John - --chuck goolsbee bend, oregon, usa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 23:12:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Just for John nice. but no sign of an a/c... not sure anyone could stuff an a/c unit in there... :) wonder what it'll go for. if it were closer to Seattle I might jump into the bidding... getting it out here would be expensive... could do a conversion on a wrangler for much less... I'm looking for a nice TJ with a 4cyl/automatic/hardtop and ac. then when my J10 is finished I'll look at doing an OM617 in it. Actually a 603 or 602 would be better, hydraulic lifters and a bit more power... thanx for thinking of me chuck! :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ vehicle city/hwy engine/trans/xfr - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1987 Mercedes 300D (124) 25/38 mpg 3.0L Turbo Diesel/AT 2002 VW Jetta GLS TDI 34/45 mpg 1.9L TDI/AT 1983 Jeep J10 long box (SJ) 11/15 mpg 5.9L AT/NP208 (best mpg 17.68) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg)- under construction since 1999 getting '80 Scout SD33T Diesel, TF727/NP208 mpg: 20/24 expected - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:04:41 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] euro lights When you say "new euros with turn lights", what exactly do these replace? What do the ones for sale look like? My right-side headlight assembly has issues with looseness. Frequently need to smack it to have the headlight at full brightness or the parking light work. (Haven't had the chance to go in and poke around yet.) As mentioned earlier, lots of pitting and cracking in the current lights. I don't care about the wipers, since I don't have the below-light panels for the wiper assemblies, just blank ones (recently repainted). Are the wipers something I can ignore or easily retrofit? - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] On Sun Oct 09, 2011, John Meister wrote: > > The guy will sell the euros off of shadowfax for $150 now, he > started out at $350 because he didn't know... I think I paid $250 for > mine from Europe including shipping... but I was able to find a pair > of new euros with turn lights for right at $200 with shipping. > > Although I think the ones that were on shadowfax may be superior > quality to the ones I bought... but I'm not going to swap them around, > happy with what I have. > > talked to aurora, they sell the stock lights for $150 each, not sure > if that includes the wiper or not... turn indicators $65. > > let me know... otherwise I'll put mine up on ebay... will put up some > pictures later... I think there are some minor rock chips on mine so > the price might be less... > > I need to replace the driver's seat on my '87 300D or get the shop > to fix it better... have the car up on CL/ebay for $6500, have about > $7k into it at this point but am ready to consider any serious offers... > I need to test drive a TJ Wrangler... otherwise I'll get another VW TDI, > actually found a couple of wagons with automatics... I liked the way > the wagon was setup, could put a tool pouch in the opening in the back, > back in, open the tailgate, then flip part of the floor up and access > all my tools with cover... worked well. > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sun, 9 Oct 2011, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # How much? One of my lights could use relacing (keeps having bulbs and such get loose until I smack them), and both sides' plastic lenses are all crackled and such. > # > # -bkc > # Lynnwood, WA > # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT > # (ours) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] > # > # > # On Sun Oct 09, 2011, John Meister wrote: > # > > # > anyone interested in real euro lights for a 124? > # > > # > how about a pair of the stock lights for a 124, with wiper? > # > > # > > # > the guy that bought shadowfax just upgraded the car to a '95 hood and lights > # > and offered me the euro lights. > # > > # > I bought new euro lights off of ebay and have my original lights and turn signals to sell. > # > > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all > # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3503 **********************************