From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Jun 5 15:15:00 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:15:51 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3599 diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, June 5 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3599 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC [db] speaking of fuses... Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC I wonder if you could just borrow the wiring from your other 124... be careful about jiggling that tumbler... knowing what can happen if that tumbler fails you're making me nervous... :) isn't it funny how we can cringe about something even if we don't have to fix it? :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- john-at- http://wagoneers.com TRSTGZS Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and Diesels don't rust, they mold buy direct: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (American 26th US President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, john wrote: # I highly recommend getting the proper NEW ignition switch for your car by VIN... # # is it the tumbler part or the switch part? # # either way, this is not a task for the faint of heart or someone who doesn't own a sawzall... # # I'd suggest getting help from the dealer on this or experience this: # # http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/201-series/190D-ignition-switch-replace/ # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # -o|||||o- john-at- http://wagoneers.com TRSTGZS # Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and Diesels don't rust, they mold # buy direct: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # -------------------------------------------------------------------------- # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" # Theodore Roosevelt (American 26th US President (1901-09), 1858-1919) # -------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # # # When I turn on the key for the 1987 W124 300D-T, it no longer powers up the climate control system. If the circuit is directly powered, the blower works (although compressor does not kick in), and it worked with key jiggling until recently. Right now it just blows hot air out the vents without a fan. # # # # Dealership says it is the ignition switch (Part #202-545-01-04) that is bad, but I am puzzled since the stereo and other accessory units power up fine. # # # # Before I go through taking apart the whole ingition switch/steering lock/tumblers mess, I wanted to make sure I am going after the right thing... # # # # So, does the diagnosis make sense? Can just part of the powering up stop working? # # # # And, while I am in there, is there anything else I should replace or at least inspect? I am planning on taking the ignition switch from my wrecked W124, since it is the same part number according to the parts counter. # # # # As a possibly related note, the glow plug light never turns off to indicate ready to start, but *does* turn off and stay off as soon as the motor is running. Also, there are still many light sockets without bulbs (previous owners apparently stripped them all out and then only put them back as needed?). # # # # Off to go make the special little bent wire thingy to release the tumblers... [http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124IgnLockCylinder] # # # # Thanks as always! # # -bkc # # Lynnwood, WA # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) # # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) # # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) # # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:37:26 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC The more I delve into things, like the inside of the doors, etc., the more I wonder whether it was at one point a parts car, or otherwise sat around in dirty storage for a while, then got put back together by amateurs (okay, probably not the best label, since that also includes me -- overconfident and impatient amateurs maybe?). Lots of stupid problems and errors that could have been avoided by a very minimal google search. That and tons of overtorquing everywhere. Anyway, I guess I will just go ahead and practice on the wrecked car, since I want to pull that switch to use. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: > What did the PO do to this car??? :) > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Caruthers > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:52:10 > To: dbl > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC > > Wires and fuses *seem* fine (I never fully trust checking them, of course). I did have it in at the dealership for an alignment and had them check the AC while it was there. That is where the diagnosis (and check of bypassing the switch) came from. > > The blower worked fine, and AC was cool (not cold) prior to this, but had to jiggle the key a bunch (more and more) to get the climate control to actually power on. > > -bkc > Lynnwood, WA > > > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: > > > > Did you check the wires to see if they've been overheated? Fuses ok? Remember they can look good. :). I guess that part could go bad, and if other stuff isn't working right it might clear that up as well. > > > > How much is it and how hard is it to get out of there? :) > > > > > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce Caruthers > > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:37:40 > > To: > > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers > > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC > > > > The key still turns, it is just the electrical switch connection behind the steering lock. No sawzall required, as far as I can tell. Special little wire thingy to release the front stuff, then either pop out the gauge panel for easier access, or just go in from below (per FSM). Tumblers are perfectly fine. It just isn't sending electricity to the HVAC connection anymore. Lock cylinder and steering lock all seem to be fine. > > > > The alleged issue is with #7 in this diagram: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/79865d1271734776-removing-ignition-switch-steering-wheel-lock-240d.jpg > > > > Roell at MBLynnwood checked the part numbers, and the switch is identical across the models (1993 300D 2.5L, 1987 300D-T). > > > > -bkc > > Lynnwood, WA > > > > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, John Meister wrote: > > > > > > I highly recommend getting the proper NEW ignition switch for your car by VIN... > > > > > > is it the tumbler part or the switch part? > > > > > > either way, this is not a task for the faint of heart or someone who doesn't own a sawzall... > > > > > > I'd suggest getting help from the dealer on this or experience this: > > > > > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/201-series/190D-ignition-switch-replace/ > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > > > > > # When I turn on the key for the 1987 W124 300D-T, it no longer powers up the climate control system. If the circuit is directly powered, the blower works (although compressor does not kick in), and it worked with key jiggling until recently. Right now it just blows hot air out the vents without a fan. > > > # > > > # Dealership says it is the ignition switch (Part #202-545-01-04) that is bad, but I am puzzled since the stereo and other accessory units power up fine. > > > # > > > # Before I go through taking apart the whole ingition switch/steering lock/tumblers mess, I wanted to make sure I am going after the right thing... > > > # > > > # So, does the diagnosis make sense? Can just part of the powering up stop working? > > > # > > > # And, while I am in there, is there anything else I should replace or at least inspect? I am planning on taking the ignition switch from my wrecked W124, since it is the same part number according to the parts counter. > > > # > > > # As a possibly related note, the glow plug light never turns off to indicate ready to start, but *does* turn off and stay off as soon as the motor is running. Also, there are still many light sockets without bulbs (previous owners apparently stripped them all out and then only put them back as needed?). > > > # > > > # Off to go make the special little bent wire thingy to release the tumblers... [http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124IgnLockCylinder] > > > # > > > # Thanks as always! > > > # -bkc > > > # Lynnwood, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:44:15 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: [db] speaking of fuses... Nothing is ever simple. I went to replace the front headlight on the R129. Uses the same lamp (#9004) and such as the W124. When I pulled the current one, the filaments looked fine. Put in the known-working #9004 lamp from the wrecked W124. No joy. Checked the fuse box. Circuit #14 (white, 8 amp) is for "right front low headlamp" (high worked before and after). Fuse was visually fine, then I tried the rotate test and it went to pieces. The bottom is melted into the fusebox plastic. 1. How do I repair this so I can put a new fuse in? Or do I need a new fusebox base? 2. How do I make sure it won't just happen again? *Something* must have caused it to fuse like that. - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 14:45:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC you had the dealer check that car out too, right? they missed the fan and shroud? it's not a bad looking car the way it was done, and I don't think you paid too much if I remember correctly... I wouldn't worry about trying to make it all perfect then... maybe you should look at fixing that switch and wiring as opposed to spending a lot of money on it... if you don't know how to solder I can help you out... unless the internals of the connector are too far gone... Other than the dent on the trunk lid, the busted trip odometer lever and the one turn indicator that was wired in with piano wire, my '87 was a good find... wish I'd taken the car to chuck for the alignment first, could have saved my self a lot of time, money and effort... :) oh well... back end is tight now... need to top off the a/c, fix the cruise and all is good... I think if my j10 were to finish up now I'd likely keep the benz and part with the jetta wagon... if I had to get down to two vehicles... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- john-at- http://wagoneers.com TRSTGZS Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and Diesels don't rust, they mold buy direct: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (American 26th US President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # The more I delve into things, like the inside of the doors, etc., the more I wonder whether it was at one point a parts car, or otherwise sat around in dirty storage for a while, then got put back together by amateurs (okay, probably not the best label, since that also includes me -- overconfident and impatient amateurs maybe?). Lots of stupid problems and errors that could have been avoided by a very minimal google search. That and tons of overtorquing everywhere. # # Anyway, I guess I will just go ahead and practice on the wrecked car, since I want to pull that switch to use. # # -bkc # Lynnwood, WA # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) # # # On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: # > What did the PO do to this car??? :) # > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ # > # > -----Original Message----- # > From: Bruce Caruthers # > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net # > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:52:10 # > To: dbl # > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers # > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC # > # > Wires and fuses *seem* fine (I never fully trust checking them, of course). I did have it in at the dealership for an alignment and had them check the AC while it was there. That is where the diagnosis (and check of bypassing the switch) came from. # > # > The blower worked fine, and AC was cool (not cold) prior to this, but had to jiggle the key a bunch (more and more) to get the climate control to actually power on. # > # > -bkc # > Lynnwood, WA # > # > # > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: # > > # > > Did you check the wires to see if they've been overheated? Fuses ok? Remember they can look good. :). I guess that part could go bad, and if other stuff isn't working right it might clear that up as well. # > > # > > How much is it and how hard is it to get out of there? :) # > > # > > # > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ # > > # > > -----Original Message----- # > > From: Bruce Caruthers # > > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net # > > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:37:40 # > > To: # > > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers # > > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC # > > # > > The key still turns, it is just the electrical switch connection behind the steering lock. No sawzall required, as far as I can tell. Special little wire thingy to release the front stuff, then either pop out the gauge panel for easier access, or just go in from below (per FSM). Tumblers are perfectly fine. It just isn't sending electricity to the HVAC connection anymore. Lock cylinder and steering lock all seem to be fine. # > > # > > The alleged issue is with #7 in this diagram: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/79865d1271734776-removing-ignition-switch-steering-wheel-lock-240d.jpg # > > # > > Roell at MBLynnwood checked the part numbers, and the switch is identical across the models (1993 300D 2.5L, 1987 300D-T). # > > # > > -bkc # > > Lynnwood, WA # > > # > > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, John Meister wrote: # > > > # > > > I highly recommend getting the proper NEW ignition switch for your car by VIN... # > > > # > > > is it the tumbler part or the switch part? # > > > # > > > either way, this is not a task for the faint of heart or someone who doesn't own a sawzall... # > > > # > > > I'd suggest getting help from the dealer on this or experience this: # > > > # > > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/201-series/190D-ignition-switch-replace/ # > > > # > > > # > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # > > > # > > > # When I turn on the key for the 1987 W124 300D-T, it no longer powers up the climate control system. If the circuit is directly powered, the blower works (although compressor does not kick in), and it worked with key jiggling until recently. Right now it just blows hot air out the vents without a fan. # > > > # # > > > # Dealership says it is the ignition switch (Part #202-545-01-04) that is bad, but I am puzzled since the stereo and other accessory units power up fine. # > > > # # > > > # Before I go through taking apart the whole ingition switch/steering lock/tumblers mess, I wanted to make sure I am going after the right thing... # > > > # # > > > # So, does the diagnosis make sense? Can just part of the powering up stop working? # > > > # # > > > # And, while I am in there, is there anything else I should replace or at least inspect? I am planning on taking the ignition switch from my wrecked W124, since it is the same part number according to the parts counter. # > > > # # > > > # As a possibly related note, the glow plug light never turns off to indicate ready to start, but *does* turn off and stay off as soon as the motor is running. Also, there are still many light sockets without bulbs (previous owners apparently stripped them all out and then only put them back as needed?). # > > > # # > > > # Off to go make the special little bent wire thingy to release the tumblers... [http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124IgnLockCylinder] # > > > # # > > > # Thanks as always! # > > > # -bkc # > > > # Lynnwood, WA # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:15:37 -0700 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC Didn't bother with an inspection on the R129. This '87 W124 was the one I foolishly paid for the dealership inspection. Paid $4,900 for the W124 and the myriad parts the PO hadn't gotten around to dealing with. This W124 will never be as clean and nice as the wrecked '93 was. I am just trying to get it fully functional for daily driving and roadtrips. Almost everything relating to safety has been done, now. Has been done: * completely rebuilt the stereo wiring * replaced all brakes, rear rotors * steering was just repaired by dealership, four-wheel alignment found to be unnecessary * tranny gasket * tranny cooler lines * repaired mess they made of center console fittings (PO forced things into place, badly) Needs to be done (at least known so far): * ignition switch (then figure out whether glow plug controller and A/C actually have problems or whether it was the switch) * lighting of instrument panel is poor (many bulbs missing or dead) * parking brake barely engages (can't find adjustment screws) * engine and tranny mounts (parts just came in, planning to do those myself later this week, should be an interesting learning experience...) * finish swapping leather interior from wreck (did rear seats/panels, need to do front seats and door panels, debating whether to swap rear parcel shelf and third brake light) * missing engine fan/clutch/shroud * rear door handles and locks need refurbishing or replacement * Mercedes symbols and markings horribly mis-installed, damaging paint * sunroof totally misaligned * rear windows don't work (and right-rear motor is in upside down, colliding with doorcheck) * myriad lightbulbs missing * paint needs buffing to get rid of the orange peel texture * block heater cord is ripped and frayed * really want to replace grille with something less Lincoln-esque - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) On Tue Jun 05, 2012, John Meister wrote: > > you had the dealer check that car out too, right? they missed the fan and shroud? > > it's not a bad looking car the way it was done, and I don't think you paid too much if I remember correctly... > > I wouldn't worry about trying to make it all perfect then... maybe you should look at fixing that switch and > wiring as opposed to spending a lot of money on it... if you don't know how to solder I can help you out... unless > the internals of the connector are too far gone... > > Other than the dent on the trunk lid, the busted trip odometer lever and the one turn indicator that was > wired in with piano wire, my '87 was a good find... wish I'd taken the car to chuck for the alignment first, > could have saved my self a lot of time, money and effort... :) oh well... back end is tight now... need > to top off the a/c, fix the cruise and all is good... > > I think if my j10 were to finish up now I'd likely keep the benz and part with the jetta wagon... if I had > to get down to two vehicles... > > john > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # The more I delve into things, like the inside of the doors, etc., the more I wonder whether it was at one point a parts car, or otherwise sat around in dirty storage for a while, then got put back together by amateurs (okay, probably not the best label, since that also includes me -- overconfident and impatient amateurs maybe?). Lots of stupid problems and errors that could have been avoided by a very minimal google search. That and tons of overtorquing everywhere. > # > # Anyway, I guess I will just go ahead and practice on the wrecked car, since I want to pull that switch to use. > # > # -bkc > # Lynnwood, WA > # > # > # On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: > # > What did the PO do to this car??? :) > # > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > # > > # > -----Original Message----- > # > From: Bruce Caruthers > # > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > # > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:52:10 > # > To: dbl > # > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers > # > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC > # > > # > Wires and fuses *seem* fine (I never fully trust checking them, of course). I did have it in at the dealership for an alignment and had them check the AC while it was there. That is where the diagnosis (and check of bypassing the switch) came from. > # > > # > The blower worked fine, and AC was cool (not cold) prior to this, but had to jiggle the key a bunch (more and more) to get the climate control to actually power on. > # > > # > -bkc > # > Lynnwood, WA > # > > # > > # > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, john wrote: > # > > > # > > Did you check the wires to see if they've been overheated? Fuses ok? Remember they can look good. :). I guess that part could go bad, and if other stuff isn't working right it might clear that up as well. > # > > > # > > How much is it and how hard is it to get out of there? :) > # > > > # > > > # > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > # > > > # > > -----Original Message----- > # > > From: Bruce Caruthers > # > > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > # > > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:37:40 > # > > To: > # > > Reply-To: Bruce Caruthers > # > > Subject: Re: [db] W124 key stopped powering up HVAC > # > > > # > > The key still turns, it is just the electrical switch connection behind the steering lock. No sawzall required, as far as I can tell. Special little wire thingy to release the front stuff, then either pop out the gauge panel for easier access, or just go in from below (per FSM). Tumblers are perfectly fine. It just isn't sending electricity to the HVAC connection anymore. Lock cylinder and steering lock all seem to be fine. > # > > > # > > The alleged issue is with #7 in this diagram: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/79865d1271734776-removing-ignition-switch-steering-wheel-lock-240d.jpg > # > > > # > > Roell at MBLynnwood checked the part numbers, and the switch is identical across the models (1993 300D 2.5L, 1987 300D-T). > # > > > # > > -bkc > # > > Lynnwood, WA > # > > > # > > On Tue Jun 05, 2012, John Meister wrote: > # > > > > # > > > I highly recommend getting the proper NEW ignition switch for your car by VIN... > # > > > > # > > > is it the tumbler part or the switch part? > # > > > > # > > > either way, this is not a task for the faint of heart or someone who doesn't own a sawzall... > # > > > > # > > > I'd suggest getting help from the dealer on this or experience this: > # > > > > # > > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/TECH/201-series/190D-ignition-switch-replace/ > # > > > > # > > > > # > > > On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > # > > > > # > > > # When I turn on the key for the 1987 W124 300D-T, it no longer powers up the climate control system. If the circuit is directly powered, the blower works (although compressor does not kick in), and it worked with key jiggling until recently. Right now it just blows hot air out the vents without a fan. > # > > > # > # > > > # Dealership says it is the ignition switch (Part #202-545-01-04) that is bad, but I am puzzled since the stereo and other accessory units power up fine. > # > > > # > # > > > # Before I go through taking apart the whole ingition switch/steering lock/tumblers mess, I wanted to make sure I am going after the right thing... > # > > > # > # > > > # So, does the diagnosis make sense? Can just part of the powering up stop working? > # > > > # > # > > > # And, while I am in there, is there anything else I should replace or at least inspect? I am planning on taking the ignition switch from my wrecked W124, since it is the same part number according to the parts counter. > # > > > # > # > > > # As a possibly related note, the glow plug light never turns off to indicate ready to start, but *does* turn off and stay off as soon as the motor is running. Also, there are still many light sockets without bulbs (previous owners apparently stripped them all out and then only put them back as needed?). > # > > > # > # > > > # Off to go make the special little bent wire thingy to release the tumblers... [http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124IgnLockCylinder] > # > > > # > # > > > # Thanks as always! > # > > > # -bkc > # > > > # Lynnwood, WA > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3599 **********************************