From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Fri Jul 20 10:55:00 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:55:35 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3624 diesel-benz-digest Friday, July 20 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3624 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) RE: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) I'd recommend the same type, but in 1/2" drive so you can do your lug nuts... Craftsman 1/2-in. Dr. Beam Style Torque Wrench, 0-150 ft. lbs. item #00903300000 Mfr. model #47714 then use a 1/2-3/8" adapter for your 3/8" sockets. there are tables for torque depending on whether the bolts are wet or dry... Metrology, eh? cool... I support some s/w that does that in cad/cam... I've never really cared for the deflection kind of torque wrenches, especially now since I have to wear readers... ;) biggest hassle is parallax... (sp??) How far out were there click types? percentage-wise? any suggestions on how to check calibration at home? thanx, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 20 Jul 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: # Get one of these. I do not recommend the click type torque wrenches, unless you have access to a metrology lab; they get out of calibration too easily. I worked with them in the nuclear industry, and we had to check the calibration on them before every job. I have seen them as much as 60 percent out of calibration. # # http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-in-dr-beam-style-torque-wrench/p-00932999000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Wrenches&sName=Torque+Wrenches&prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=L8 # # Also, torquing a bolt is useless unless the threads are in good shape AND CLEAN. Before you start torquing, read up on the proper techniques. There is plenty of good info on the Internet. # # Thomas E. Potter # Technical Specialist II # Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC # Office: (713) 215-2877 # Cell: (832) 794-0536 # Fax: (713) 215-2551 # E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:27 PM # To: Bruce Caruthers # Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) # # 45 N-m = 33.19025 ft lbs # # I'd say that's about palm tight with a 3/8" ratchet choked up about 1/3rd of the handle... # for me... but you should see what I did to my Jetta dash when I forgot two screws... remember, # I spent 8 years in the army doing pushups... ;) # # I'd recommend investing $30 in a harbor freight ratching style torque wrench... I picked # up one years ago at a discount store and it's worked well for me over the years... # # I don't think you could really hurt it unless you used a long bar or really herc'd on it. # # If you were to use a 3/8" ratchet of normal size and put a decent amount of pressure on it # I don't think you'd go much over about 40 ftlbs. # # john # # # # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation # http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" # Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # On Thu, 19 Jul 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # # # When the manuals say to tighten something to, for example, 45 N-m, what tool am I supposed to be using to judge that? # # # # Are there tricks to doing it with regular hand tools and judging the resistance? # # # # -bkc # # Lynnwood, WA # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) # # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) # # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) # # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:23:35 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:11 PM, john wrote: > any suggestions on how to check calibration at home? > Yes, but you'll need a horse, the below ... and a fast arm ;-) TORQUE = HP x 5252 w RPM > > thanx, > john > > ----- > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: > > # Get one of these. I do not recommend the click type torque wrenches, > unless you have access to a metrology lab; they get out of calibration too > easily. I worked with them in the nuclear industry, and we had to check the > calibration on them before every job. I have seen them as much as 60 > percent out of calibration. > # > # > http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-in-dr-beam-style-torque-wrench/p-00932 999000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Wrenches&sName=Torque+Wrenches&prdNo=8&blockNo =8&blockType=L8 > # > # Also, torquing a bolt is useless unless the threads are in good shape > AND CLEAN. Before you start torquing, read up on the proper techniques. > There is plenty of good info on the Internet. > # > # Thomas E. Potter > # Technical Specialist II > # Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC > # Office: (713) 215-2877 > # Cell: (832) 794-0536 > # Fax: (713) 215-2551 > # E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > On Behalf Of john > # Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:27 PM > # To: Bruce Caruthers > # Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net > # Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) > # > # 45 N-m = 33.19025 ft lbs > # > # I'd say that's about palm tight with a 3/8" ratchet choked up about > 1/3rd of the handle... > # for me... but you should see what I did to my Jetta dash when I forgot > two screws... remember, > # I spent 8 years in the army doing pushups... ;) > # > # I'd recommend investing $30 in a harbor freight ratching style torque > wrench... I picked > # up one years ago at a discount store and it's worked well for me over > the years... > # > # I don't think you could really hurt it unless you used a long bar or > really herc'd on it. > # > # If you were to use a 3/8" ratchet of normal size and put a decent > amount of pressure on it > # I don't think you'd go much over about 40 ftlbs. > # > # john > # > # > # > # ----- > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > # http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold > # ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college > education" > # Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # On Thu, 19 Jul 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > # > # # When the manuals say to tighten something to, for example, 45 N-m, > what tool am I supposed to be using to judge that? > # # > # # Are there tricks to doing it with regular hand tools and judging the > resistance? > # # > # # -bkc > # # Lynnwood, WA > # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) > # # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) > # # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) > # # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:42:34 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Just bought a Snap On click type torque wrench on Ebay for 60 bucks (they range anywhere from this up to 400 bucks) and then found the calibration tool on e-bay for about another 50 bucks. The repair kit for the Snap On from the manufacturer is under 40 bucks for all the internal components that could wear. I bought the click repair kit alone for 10 bucks from Snap on, then will check the calibration to see if I need the ball or seat or spring etc. FWIW - Sears has changed their policy on torque wrenches - one year guarantee if it breaks, no more eternal guarantee. After that YOYO and mine failed after 8 years. The cheap Chinese one I bought following failed after 2 years use (the ratchet mechanism fails and you get skinned knuckles galore) but as Tom wrote, no clue if they were within tolerance, hence the torque calibration tool now ordered. I am hoping the Snap On wrench is of the higher quality end, and the fact they sell all the internal parts makes me feel good about owning one. Edward On 7/20/2012 8:11 AM, Potter, Tom E wrote: > Get one of these. I do not recommend the click type torque wrenches, unless > you have access to a metrology lab; they get out of calibration too easily. I > worked with them in the nuclear industry, and we had to check the calibration > on them before every job. I have seen them as much as 60 percent out of > calibration. > > http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-in-dr-beam-style-torque-wrench/p-00932 > 999000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Wrenches&sName=Torque+Wrenches&prdNo=8&blockNo > =8&blockType=L8 > > Also, torquing a bolt is useless unless the threads are in good shape AND > CLEAN. Before you start torquing, read up on the proper techniques. There is > plenty of good info on the Internet. > > Thomas E. Potter > Technical Specialist II > Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC > Office: (713) 215-2877 > Cell: (832) 794-0536 > Fax: (713) 215-2551 > E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On > Behalf Of john > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:27 PM > To: Bruce Caruthers > Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net > Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) > > 45 N-m = 33.19025 ft lbs > > I'd say that's about palm tight with a 3/8" ratchet choked up about 1/3rd of > the handle... > for me... but you should see what I did to my Jetta dash when I forgot two > screws... remember, > I spent 8 years in the army doing pushups... ;) > > I'd recommend investing $30 in a harbor freight ratching style torque > wrench... I picked > up one years ago at a discount store and it's worked well for me over the > years... > > I don't think you could really hurt it unless you used a long bar or really > herc'd on it. > > If you were to use a 3/8" ratchet of normal size and put a decent amount of > pressure on it > I don't think you'd go much over about 40 ftlbs. > > john > > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # When the manuals say to tighten something to, for example, 45 N-m, what > tool am I supposed to be using to judge that? > # > # Are there tricks to doing it with regular hand tools and judging the > resistance? > # > # -bkc > # Lynnwood, WA > # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) > # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) > # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) > # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:54:19 +0000 From: john@wagoneers.com Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) Male or female horse? :) __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Rigley Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:23:35 To: john Cc: Potter, Tom E; Bruce Caruthers; diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 5:11 PM, john wrote: > any suggestions on how to check calibration at home? > Yes, but you'll need a horse, the below ... and a fast arm ;-) TORQUE = HP x 5252 w RPM > > thanx, > john > > ----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: > > # Get one of these. I do not recommend the click type torque wrenches, > unless you have access to a metrology lab; they get out of calibration too > easily. I worked with them in the nuclear industry, and we had to check the > calibration on them before every job. I have seen them as much as 60 > percent out of calibration. > # > # > http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-in-dr-beam-style-torque-wrench/p-00932999000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Wrenches&sName=Torque+Wrenches&prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=L8 > # > # Also, torquing a bolt is useless unless the threads are in good shape > AND CLEAN. Before you start torquing, read up on the proper techniques. > There is plenty of good info on the Internet. > # > # Thomas E. Potter > # Technical Specialist II > # Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC > # Office: (713) 215-2877 > # Cell: (832) 794-0536 > # Fax: (713) 215-2551 > # E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > On Behalf Of john > # Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:27 PM > # To: Bruce Caruthers > # Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net > # Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) > # > # 45 N-m = 33.19025 ft lbs > # > # I'd say that's about palm tight with a 3/8" ratchet choked up about > 1/3rd of the handle... > # for me... but you should see what I did to my Jetta dash when I forgot > two screws... remember, > # I spent 8 years in the army doing pushups... ;) > # > # I'd recommend investing $30 in a harbor freight ratching style torque > wrench... I picked > # up one years ago at a discount store and it's worked well for me over > the years... > # > # I don't think you could really hurt it unless you used a long bar or > really herc'd on it. > # > # If you were to use a 3/8" ratchet of normal size and put a decent > amount of pressure on it > # I don't think you'd go much over about 40 ftlbs. > # > # john > # > # > # > # ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > # http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold > # ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college > education" > # Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # On Thu, 19 Jul 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > # > # # When the manuals say to tighten something to, for example, 45 N-m, > what tool am I supposed to be using to judge that? > # # > # # Are there tricks to doing it with regular hand tools and judging the > resistance? > # # > # # -bkc > # # Lynnwood, WA > # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) > # # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) > # # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) > # # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:55:30 -0500 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: RE: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) I have seen the click type out of calibration as much as 60 percent. Here are some pretty good procedures for checking the calibration. http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?232615-How-to-perform-your-own- torque-wrench-calibration-testing http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=torque%20wrench%20calibration&source=w eb&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CGsQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D RUD81N_TlS8&ei=1ZcJUMLzDaKe2QXW0oSyBw&usg=AFQjCNF4JBht7ZIom1aoO-GdE6-gch3Rhg http://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench Thomas E. Potter Technical Specialist II Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC Office: (713) 215-2877 Cell: (832) 794-0536 Fax: (713) 215-2551 E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john@wagoneers.com] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:11 AM To: Potter, Tom E Cc: Bruce Caruthers; diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: RE: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) I'd recommend the same type, but in 1/2" drive so you can do your lug nuts... Craftsman 1/2-in. Dr. Beam Style Torque Wrench, 0-150 ft. lbs. item #00903300000 Mfr. model #47714 then use a 1/2-3/8" adapter for your 3/8" sockets. there are tables for torque depending on whether the bolts are wet or dry... Metrology, eh? cool... I support some s/w that does that in cad/cam... I've never really cared for the deflection kind of torque wrenches, especially now since I have to wear readers... ;) biggest hassle is parallax... (sp??) How far out were there click types? percentage-wise? any suggestions on how to check calibration at home? thanx, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 20 Jul 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: # Get one of these. I do not recommend the click type torque wrenches, unless you have access to a metrology lab; they get out of calibration too easily. I worked with them in the nuclear industry, and we had to check the calibration on them before every job. I have seen them as much as 60 percent out of calibration. # # http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-in-dr-beam-style-torque-wrench/p-00932 999000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Wrenches&sName=Torque+Wrenches&prdNo=8&blockNo =8&blockType=L8 # # Also, torquing a bolt is useless unless the threads are in good shape AND CLEAN. Before you start torquing, read up on the proper techniques. There is plenty of good info on the Internet. # # Thomas E. Potter # Technical Specialist II # Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Company, LLC # Office: (713) 215-2877 # Cell: (832) 794-0536 # Fax: (713) 215-2551 # E-mail: tom.e.potter@williams.com # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:27 PM # To: Bruce Caruthers # Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] really newbie question (bolt torques) # # 45 N-m = 33.19025 ft lbs # # I'd say that's about palm tight with a 3/8" ratchet choked up about 1/3rd of the handle... # for me... but you should see what I did to my Jetta dash when I forgot two screws... remember, # I spent 8 years in the army doing pushups... ;) # # I'd recommend investing $30 in a harbor freight ratching style torque wrench... I picked # up one years ago at a discount store and it's worked well for me over the years... # # I don't think you could really hurt it unless you used a long bar or really herc'd on it. # # If you were to use a 3/8" ratchet of normal size and put a decent amount of pressure on it # I don't think you'd go much over about 40 ftlbs. # # john # # # # ----- # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation # http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" # Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # On Thu, 19 Jul 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: # # # When the manuals say to tighten something to, for example, 45 N-m, what tool am I supposed to be using to judge that? # # # # Are there tricks to doing it with regular hand tools and judging the resistance? # # # # -bkc # # Lynnwood, WA # # (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] # # (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) # # (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) # # (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) # # (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) # # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3624 **********************************