From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Jul 24 08:32:00 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:32:39 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3628 diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, July 24 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3628 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... RE: [db] Mystery Problem... RE: [db] Mystery Problem... RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Re: [db] W123 Tire Recommendations [db] 300GD RE: [db] Mystery Problem... RE: [db] Mystery Problem... RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 06:58:21 -0400 From: Steve Morelen Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... What is the fuel stop (engine shutdown) mechanism in this '92 300D? Is it electric or is it vacuum-based as in the earlier MB diesels? My ownership experience only goes to the '87 603.960 engines. :-) //steve > From: FParker24@verizon.net > To: diesel-benz@digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:44:37 -0400 > > Yes! And that question got me thinking. Fuel relief valve maybe? It's > controlled by a spring, so if it is weak the fuel pressure relative to > the IP will be lower than normal no matter how hard the primary pump > works... Hmmm.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > On Behalf Of Steve Morelen > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 10:42 PM > To: fparker24@verizon.net; diesel-benz@digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > > > Is it acting like it is not getting any fuel at all during the hot-start > scenario? //steve > > > From: FParker24@verizon.net > > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net > > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > > Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:20:33 -0400 > > > > I was thinking glows too, I changed all five a few months ago and the > > problem persisted. I have been trying to not think about compression > > for obvious reasons, however I would think compression wouldn't heal > > itself as the engine cools? Not sure, but my guess is that it would > > get better as the metals get hotter - just a thought. And then there > > is the ALDA. I wonder if something is telling the IP not to fuel at > > hot start... When I hold the skinny pedal down while cranking, it > > usually lights right up... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > > On Behalf Of Michael Frank > > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 2:05 PM > > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net > > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > 1) The Alda is a good place to start. The vacuum signal comes from the > > > left side of the intake manifold (at least it does on my '87). There's > > > an electrical sensor there that senses overpressure for the waste gate > > > mechanism, and directly below a hose fitting for the Alda. Try > > cleaning these, they get jammed with carbon after a while. The only > > thing is, these tend to affect power more than starting. > > 2) Faulty MAF sensor (the thing just behind the air filter). These are > > > pretty expensive, but don't usually go bad. Not sure how to check one. > > 3) Low compression > > 4) Leaky injector > > 5) Carbon build up on the glow plugs...count to ten after the light > > goes out before you crank. If this fixes it, you're going to need to > > pull the glow plugs eventually. > > > > Mike Frank > > > > > > At 09:47 AM 7/21/2012, FParker wrote: > > >Symptoms have been there through a filter change. > > > > > >I have thought of the air in lines thing, but I don't think that > > >problem would fix itself as the engine cools down - it starts > > >normally when it is cold. That is what is so weird about this one. > > > > > >How about the ALDA. Is there a vacuum signal to the alda or any > > >other part of the injection pump at startup? > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Edward Pomeroy [mailto:ejpomeroy@qtm.net] > > >Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 7:37 AM > > >To: FParker > > >Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net > > >Subject: Re: [db] Mystery Problem... > > > > > > > > >Did the symptom start after you replaced the fuel filters? You might > > > >have air in the fuel system or getting into it when hot. > > > > > >Seals on the hand plunger pump (that thingie under manifold that I > > >never > > > > > >figured out what it's for) could be leaking a bit? > > > > > >Anyone else with thoughts? > > > > > >Edward > > > > > >On 7/21/2012 7:25 AM, FParker wrote: > > > > Hey Gang - > > > > My '92 300D recently (in the last few months) started doing > > > > something strange that I can't put my finger on. It's not > > > > anything really serious, just kind of an annoyance at this point. > > > > > > > > Cold starts are quick, it lights right up after glowing the plugs > > > > the normal amount of time. Even in the really cold weather - this > > > > > car has > > > > > > > always started up in the cold quickly and smoothly. > > > > > > > > Hot starts are a different story though. If I stop to fuel up, > > > > for example, and shut the engine down, when I restart I have to > > > > crank it > > > > > > excessively before she lights up. Sometimes I even need to give > > > > it a little pedal just to get it to catch. Once running, it's > > > > fine. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > The following components are new and recently replaced: Glow > > > > plugs, both fuel filters, air filter, fluids. No fancy fuels in > > > > the tank and > > > > > > > I run lot's of miles daily (about 90) and no other symptoms or > > > > issues have identified themselves. > > > > > > > > Fred > > > > > > > > > > > > - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:17:10 -0500 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... I think this is the problem. I'm not familiar with the system, so I can't pinpoint the culprit; but it seems SOMETHING is shutting off the fuel when the engine temperature reaches a certain point. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of FParker Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... ... I wonder if something is telling the IP not to fuel at hot start... When I hold the skinny pedal down while cranking, it usually lights right up... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:09:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Why doesn't the car just die at idle then after it gets to that certain point?? Jim - --- On Mon, 7/23/12, Potter, Tom E wrote: > From: Potter, Tom E > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > To: "FParker" , "diesel-benz@Digest.net" > Date: Monday, July 23, 2012, 7:17 AM > I think this is the problem. I'm not > familiar with the system, so I can't > pinpoint the culprit; but it seems SOMETHING is shutting off > the fuel when the > engine temperature reaches a certain point. > > Thomas E. Potter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > On > Behalf Of FParker > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:21 PM > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net > Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... > > > ... I wonder if something is telling the IP not > to fuel at hot start... When I hold the skinny pedal > down while > cranking, it usually lights right up... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:12:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Fred, Did you check that idle resistor thing? My '87 had to be completely glowed when warmed up or I had to use the skinny pedal to get it started again... until I changed that setting... Your economy is too good for this to be a mechanical problem, and cold starts are fine because the system advances the timing/idle in order to start, if you had a fuel leak you'd have trouble cold. that it runs smoothly when restarted tells me there wasn't air in the system. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Why doesn't the car just die at idle then after it gets to that # certain # point?? # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:09:59 -0700 From: ditwiler Subject: Re: [db] W123 Tire Recommendations I got the same story about 14 inchers being hard to find from the big chains but my local-yocal guy Antonio found $60 tires that fit the original specs. Its also the case that today's cheapo tires are better than the good ones from $30 years ago. So forget the chains and go find yourself a "llantera" -- Mexican tire shop. Eric Ditwiler Director, Academic Operations, Harvey Mudd College Staff, Academic Dean's Committee, The Claremont Colleges 909-607-3134 On Jul 22, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > In what way will 15" wheels from a 190D improve looks and performance on > my W115? > > I'm perfectly fine with the look of the R14s on the original wheels and > hubcaps. I think the newer wheels wouldn't look right on my car. W124 > and W201 wheels look fine on their respective years, but I don't think > they go with a 1976 W115 at all (and I actively dislike W123 wheels). > > The existing handling performance has been perfectly fine. Except for > the sway from the seats not having much bolstering, it handles like a > dream. > > -bkc > Lynnwood, WA > (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] > (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) > (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired, 21Apr12) > (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired, 25May12) > (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled, 28Mar12) > > > On Sun Jul 22, 2012, Michael Frank wrote: >> >> I would go with 15" wheels from a 190D. Use a tire calculator like >> this one to find a tire with the same radius as your stock tires: >> >> http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html >> >> This should improve looks and performance. >> >> Mike Frank >> >> At 08:19 PM 7/22/2012, you wrote: >>> Wow, that's disturbing. I got new tires just a couple of years ago from >>> Discount Tire, but when I looked on their and on TireRack's sites, they >>> don't even list my '76 240D, and even if I go for a 1975 or 1976 300D, >>> they don't have any tires listed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:10:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: [db] 300GD http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18910560 ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:18:49 -0400 From: "FParker" Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Yes - either something is shutting the fuel down (or at least reducing it) because it's hot or the pressure relief valve is bleeding the fuel pressure back to the tank. Himmm. I have to chase both of these thoughts. - -----Original Message----- From: Potter, Tom E [mailto:Tom.E.Potter@Williams.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 8:17 AM To: FParker; diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... I think this is the problem. I'm not familiar with the system, so I can't pinpoint the culprit; but it seems SOMETHING is shutting off the fuel when the engine temperature reaches a certain point. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of FParker Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... ... I wonder if something is telling the IP not to fuel at hot start... When I hold the skinny pedal down while cranking, it usually lights right up... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 06:20:04 -0400 From: "FParker" Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... I could not find that on my '92. I remember reading something about that adjuster at some point, but I can't locate it in the '92. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 11:13 AM To: Jim Hoffman Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... Fred, Did you check that idle resistor thing? My '87 had to be completely glowed when warmed up or I had to use the skinny pedal to get it started again... until I changed that setting... Your economy is too good for this to be a mechanical problem, and cold starts are fine because the system advances the timing/idle in order to start, if you had a fuel leak you'd have trouble cold. that it runs smoothly when restarted tells me there wasn't air in the system. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---- On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Why doesn't the car just die at idle then after it gets to that # certain # point?? # # Jim # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... I don't remember seeing it on my '91 either, maybe bruce can find it on his '93. :) Weird problem. It's got to be something simple... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 24 Jul 2012, FParker wrote: # I could not find that on my '92. I remember reading something about # that adjuster at some point, but I can't locate it in the '92. # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] # On Behalf Of john # Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 11:13 AM # To: Jim Hoffman # Cc: diesel-benz@Digest.net # Subject: RE: [db] Mystery Problem... # # # Fred, Did you check that idle resistor thing? My '87 had to be # completely glowed when warmed up or I had to use the skinny pedal to get # it started again... until I changed that setting... # # Your economy is too good for this to be a mechanical problem, and cold # starts are fine because the system advances the timing/idle in order to # start, if you had a fuel # leak you'd have trouble cold. # # that it runs smoothly when restarted tells me there wasn't air in the # system. # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ---- # -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation # http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they # mold # ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ---- # "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college # education" # Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ---- # # On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Jim Hoffman wrote: # # # Why doesn't the car just die at idle then after it gets to that # # certain # point?? # # # Jim # # # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3628 **********************************