From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Aug 7 12:24:00 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 19:24:33 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3635 diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, August 7 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3635 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:23:21 -0400 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside First check all the fuses, take them out, use crocus cloth or very fine sandpaper on the contacts then wipe off with deoxit and re-install. Check for continuity on each too, sometimes a hairline crack is not readily visible. Next pull the switch assembly from the doors and clean with de-oxit, including squirting some inside where the rocker ball/spring moves to make contact, my Benz is always gumming up, the switches oxidize if not used frequently, and even get wonky when used. I would do this before hacking into anything else. Also, check the flex conduit where the wires go from the door to the post and into the vehicle, I have never seen one break on a Mercedes but have seen them fail on Volvo (who used crappy plastics in the 80/90's) Edward On 8/7/2012 10:15 AM, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Hi all, > > Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. > > This is a call to action if I ever heard one. > > Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. > > Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? > > Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. > > Thanks, > > J > > P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 15:10:30 +0000 From: john@wagoneers.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. - ------Original Message------ From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net To: dbl ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 Hi all, Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. This is a call to action if I ever heard one. Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. Thanks, J P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:43:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Edward, Thanks for the first run tips. Was in the process of working way through them. All checked out good. Did use elec cleaner on the switch and it operates smoothly but still doesnt work. I am leaning toward a switch problem but have been fooled before, that is why I have spare switch. Notable info, getting 12.25 volts between socket 3 and 6 on the front passenger junction that plugs into switch. Hoping thats a good sign. Now how to tell for sure if its the switch? Thanks, J - -----Original Message----- >From: Edward Pomeroy >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 10:23 AM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Cc: "diesel-benz@digest.net" >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >First check all the fuses, take them out, use crocus cloth or very fine >sandpaper on the contacts then wipe off with deoxit and re-install. >Check for continuity on each too, sometimes a hairline crack is not >readily visible. > >Next pull the switch assembly from the doors and clean with de-oxit, >including squirting some inside where the rocker ball/spring moves to >make contact, my Benz is always gumming up, the switches oxidize if not >used frequently, and even get wonky when used. > >I would do this before hacking into anything else. Also, check the flex >conduit where the wires go from the door to the post and into the >vehicle, I have never seen one break on a Mercedes but have seen them >fail on Volvo (who used crappy plastics in the 80/90's) > >Edward > >On 8/7/2012 10:15 AM, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. >> >> This is a call to action if I ever heard one. >> >> Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. >> >> Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? >> >> Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. >> >> Thanks, >> >> J >> >> P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:47:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Did go through box with meter and than took out and visually inspected but since im getting current at the junction think I can rule out box. Is there an associated relay to investigate as well but getting 12+ volts at the junction maybe not. - -----Original Message----- >From: john@wagoneers.com >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 11:10 AM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. >------Original Message------ >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >To: dbl >ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 > >Hi all, > >Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. > >This is a call to action if I ever heard one. > >Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. > >Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? > >Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. > >Thanks, > >J > >P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. > >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 16:06:55 +0000 From: john@wagoneers.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Can't remember where the connectors are on the 190. But pull the panel, disconnect the motor and look for voltage at the connector when operating the switch. Seems to me my problems were usually in the console connections or one time the connecor for the door assy. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:47:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) To: ; dbl Reply-To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Did go through box with meter and than took out and visually inspected but since im getting current at the junction think I can rule out box. Is there an associated relay to investigate as well but getting 12+ volts at the junction maybe not. - -----Original Message----- >From: john@wagoneers.com >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 11:10 AM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. >------Original Message------ >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >To: dbl >ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 > >Hi all, > >Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. > >This is a call to action if I ever heard one. > >Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. > >Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? > >Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. > >Thanks, > >J > >P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. > >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 12:57:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Let the fun begin... I always hate taking appart interior panels. They never go back right and usually break one of the fasteners. - -----Original Message----- >From: john@wagoneers.com >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 12:06 PM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >Can't remember where the connectors are on the 190. But pull the panel, disconnect the motor and look for voltage at the connector when operating the switch. Seems to me my problems were usually in the console connections or one time the connecor for the door assy. >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > >-----Original Message----- >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:47:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: ; dbl >Reply-To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >Did go through box with meter and than took out and visually inspected but since im getting current at the junction think I can rule out box. Is there an associated relay to investigate as well but getting 12+ volts at the junction maybe not. > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: john@wagoneers.com >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 11:10 AM >>To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl >>Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside >> >>Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. >>------Original Message------ >>From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net >>To: dbl >>ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >>Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 >> >>Hi all, >> >>Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. >> >>This is a call to action if I ever heard one. >> >>Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. >> >>Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? >> >>Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. >> >>Thanks, >> >>J >> >>P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. >> >>__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside yeah, me too... I broke the cluster on my TDI because I didn't put on my reading glasses... mercedes don't use screws to hold the cluster in... VW does... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7 Aug 2012, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: # Let the fun begin... I always hate taking appart interior panels. They never go back right and usually break one of the fasteners. # # # -----Original Message----- # >From: john@wagoneers.com # >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 12:06 PM # >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl # >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside # > # >Can't remember where the connectors are on the 190. But pull the panel, disconnect the motor and look for voltage at the connector when operating the switch. Seems to me my problems were usually in the console connections or one time the connecor for the door assy. # >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ # > # >-----Original Message----- # >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com # >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:47:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) # >To: ; dbl # >Reply-To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com # >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside # > # >Did go through box with meter and than took out and visually inspected but since im getting current at the junction think I can rule out box. Is there an associated relay to investigate as well but getting 12+ volts at the junction maybe not. # > # > # >-----Original Message----- # >>From: john@wagoneers.com # >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 11:10 AM # >>To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl # >>Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside # >> # >>Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. # >>------Original Message------ # >>From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com # >>Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net # >>To: dbl # >>ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com # >>Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside # >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 # >> # >>Hi all, # >> # >>Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. # >> # >>This is a call to action if I ever heard one. # >> # >>Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. # >> # >>Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? # >> # >>Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. # >> # >>Thanks, # >> # >>J # >> # >>P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. # >> # >>__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 15:24:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside Update: Got the door skin off without incident. Though did notice that at some point one of the plastic fastening hooks had been broken off. But not by me LOL. Power was getting to the junction between the wires coming through the door. Good sign. Next removed the window regulator. Im sure it came out easier than it will than putting back. Removed the motor from the assembly and just out of curiosity I hooked the motor back up and hit the switch. It worked and worked in both directions. But this was short lived and stopped working. Guess getting jostled during disassembly bridged the brushes temporarily. Pulled the housing up. The brushes are worn low and to the point where the spring tension is gone. See links below for images. https://twitter.com/ctnocar/status/232914947389132800/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/ctnocar/status/232915343016861697/photo/1/large The motor + assembly is available for $115-$180 but what about the motor sans assembly or better yet the brushes or brush assembly. Any ideas/ Thanks all John - -----Original Message----- >From: john >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 1:33 PM >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com >Cc: dbl >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > >yeah, me too... I broke the cluster on my TDI because I didn't put >on my reading glasses... mercedes don't use screws to hold the cluster in... VW does... :) > >john > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" >Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >On Tue, 7 Aug 2012, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > # Let the fun begin... I always hate taking appart interior panels. They never go back right and usually break one of the fasteners. > # > # > # -----Original Message----- > # >From: john@wagoneers.com > # >Sent: Aug 7, 2012 12:06 PM > # >To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl > # >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > # > > # >Can't remember where the connectors are on the 190. But pull the panel, disconnect the motor and look for voltage at the connector when operating the switch. Seems to me my problems were usually in the console connections or one time the connecor for the door assy. > # >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > # > > # >-----Original Message----- > # >From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > # >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:47:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > # >To: ; dbl > # >Reply-To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > # >Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > # > > # >Did go through box with meter and than took out and visually inspected but since im getting current at the junction think I can rule out box. Is there an associated relay to investigate as well but getting 12+ volts at the junction maybe not. > # > > # > > # >-----Original Message----- > # >>From: john@wagoneers.com > # >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 11:10 AM > # >>To: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com, dbl > # >>Subject: Re: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > # >> > # >>Switches, fuses, contacts. The wiring connectors. Deox or just make and break conncections. Also just replace the fuses even metering them won't reveal a fracture. Taking them out and gently twisting them should reveal a break. > # >>------Original Message------ > # >>From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > # >>Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > # >>To: dbl > # >>ReplyTo: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com > # >>Subject: [db] 190DT window nightmare and its getting hot outside > # >>Sent: Aug 7, 2012 07:15 > # >> > # >>Hi all, > # >> > # >>Have a bit of a problem and the mercury is on the way up to 80'sand humid in CT. I have lived with the heat on all the time and no AC, a driver window that failed last year of course the back windows dont work but the front passenger window switch was sticking and now the window doesn't go down at all. > # >> > # >>This is a call to action if I ever heard one. > # >> > # >>Anyone have trouble shooting advise? I have a new working spare switch from the drivers side. Plugged it in but no go. Not sure if it would have worked even if current was getting to the right points. > # >> > # >>Which points should have current and how might I jump the switch? > # >> > # >>Some may laugh, but others I know practice the same maintenance by fire philosophy. > # >> > # >>Thanks, > # >> > # >>J > # >> > # >>P.S. Whitey has 299k on her and want to put more highway under her tires. She hasn't quit on me yet hope I don't have to quit on her. > # >> > # >>__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > # > # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3635 **********************************