From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Mon Sep 10 07:52:00 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:52:00 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3660 diesel-benz-digest Monday, September 10 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3660 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D Re: [db] Uh-oh...... RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:22:26 GMT From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... So what caused the ruination in your case? Loss of oil pressure going unnoticed, or pieces from the broken assembly doing damage? If I lost oil pressure, I'd notice it in a few seconds. I watch the gauges like a hawk, and have dodged many disasters as a result! I can see how a flying chain could be bad for an engine, too..... Problem is, I have 3 vehicles; one is my wife's, one is this car, and the other one has serious rust issues with the suspension that have yet to be welded. I now have to choose between potentially ruining a motor and potentially dropping a tire into a wheel well. MEGA YUCK. - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: john@wagoneers.com To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , "dbl" Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 00:58:48 +0000 Loose chain, worn sprocket, damaged links. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:58:10 To: Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Well, if I take off said inspection cover, what should I expect to see, good and bad? I have 182K, symptoms started about 7K ago, so you've got it there. However, I have to say, the head gasket failure actually sounds more like my issue than the chain. It is a well-known weakness in these engines. Edward, my gut feeling is you've nailed it. How long does it take to replace the head gasket on these? - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: john@wagoneers.com To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, "dbl" Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:38:21 +0000 If you hear noise from the front of that engine, at the very least check the oil pump chain. There is an inspection port on the passenger side. This has all the symptoms of a failing oil pump chain. Symptoms I regretfully ignored. If you have around 175k or so then I would stop using this until the chain is confirmed good. The om60x engines are what I'm talking about. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:07:31 To: Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... It would be worth checking, but it has been changed recently, and checked more recently. I used Delo 400 15w-40. This drop is not noticeable while driving perhaps I should have been more clear. I am very aware of the look of low oil while driving. When the engine is at speed, the oil gauge is always pegged, as it should be. This is not a typical drop; just a tick in the gauge barely noticeable at idle, like one of the internal components is briefly leaking oil, then holding again. - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Edward Pomeroy To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:00:21 -0400 Just a dumb question, but what is the oil level? If very low you can get this symptom while driving. Was it changed recently and what kind of oil was put in there? Edward On 9/9/2012 6:41 PM, jasonbassett@juno.com wrote: > The oil pressure drop is not that significant. It MIGHT be .1 bar at idle, but > probably more like .05 bar. It's not really all that big, but its presence > worries me. I doubt that the oil pressure has any direct connection to the > stumble, but I think it might be being infleunced by the same thing. > > CAN lifters blow out? Would even a completely removed lifter cause an > intervallic oil pressure drop? Does the oil hit them sequentially or > simultaneously? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , "dbl" > > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:34:50 +0000 > > Loss of oil pressure, some have a safety cutoff switch, no pressure no run. > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:28:47 > To: > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > > Why would that cause the engine to stumble? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , > owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, "dbl" > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:25:01 +0000 > > Oil pump chain or the oil pump. The chain broke on my om602 and that was the > end of my 91 300D. > > Have to take the front cover off, replace timing chain while you're in there. > > I failed to react to that ticking sound because it wasn't always there... > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: jasonbassett@juno.com > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: dbl > Subject: [db] Uh-oh...... > Sent: Sep 9, 2012 14:49 > > I have had a tick in my engine (1987 300SDL) for some time. It used to come > and go, then it stopped going, and just got quieter and louder. It is getting > quite loud, and today I noticed something that is.....slightly terrifying. > > My oil pressure drops slightly at that tick, which is now very sharp and > accompanied by a stumble in the engine, and then comes right back, only to > drop again the next time around. The pressure gauge is literally ticking > along > with the noise. I had assumed that it was a collapsed lifter, and that the > stumble was resulting from a valve which was not opening properly, but now I > wonder. Can a dead lifter cause the oil pressure to drop? I would imagine > that > it could blow out, and lose all ability to hold oil and lift, and hence when > the oil came to it, it would bleed off, and the pressure would drop. > > If that's not possible, I fear my engine is in deep trouble................. > > Jason > > ____________________________________________________________ > Woman is 53 But Looks 25 > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/504d0f1c698cef1c7bf1st04vuc > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:27:09 -0500 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D In my opinion, do not use starting fluid on a Mercedes engine; they tend to lock up. At least that has been my experience. If you do use it, have someone spinning the engine while you spray it into the intake. I would put the block heater on to heat the coolant, and put a radiant heater of some sort under the engine overnight. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:39 PM To: Renaud (Ron) Olgiati; diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D Id rather just use some starter fluid than risk burning up something that will cost more money to replace. Or futz around with the relay to get one last start and yank it if you bridge the connection at the relay. - -----Original Message----- >From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" >Sent: Sep 7, 2012 4:35 PM >To: diesel-benz@digest.net >Subject: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D > >Seems the preheat relay has given up the ghost. > >Is it safe to jump-heat using a direct wire for 15-20 seconds from >battery to the exit side of the pre-heat fuse ? > >(Just so I can move it around, and take it to the workshop ! ) > >Cheers, > >Ron. >-- > Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good. > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:59:23 -0500 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D Preheat, smeheat; what is preheat. You could just bring it to Houston. It is hot enough here that you don't need the preheat. :) Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of Renaud (Ron) Olgiati Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 3:35 PM To: diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D Seems the preheat relay has given up the ghost. Is it safe to jump-heat using a direct wire for 15-20 seconds from battery to the exit side of the pre-heat fuse ? (Just so I can move it around, and take it to the workshop ! ) Cheers, Ron. - -- Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:05:11 +0000 From: john@wagoneers.com Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... The chain broke. At 60 mph. End of story. End of mercedes. New owner replaced engine for 6k. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:22:26 To: Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... So what caused the ruination in your case? Loss of oil pressure going unnoticed, or pieces from the broken assembly doing damage? If I lost oil pressure, I'd notice it in a few seconds. I watch the gauges like a hawk, and have dodged many disasters as a result! I can see how a flying chain could be bad for an engine, too..... Problem is, I have 3 vehicles; one is my wife's, one is this car, and the other one has serious rust issues with the suspension that have yet to be welded. I now have to choose between potentially ruining a motor and potentially dropping a tire into a wheel well. MEGA YUCK. - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: john@wagoneers.com To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , "dbl" Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 00:58:48 +0000 Loose chain, worn sprocket, damaged links. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:58:10 To: Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Well, if I take off said inspection cover, what should I expect to see, good and bad? I have 182K, symptoms started about 7K ago, so you've got it there. However, I have to say, the head gasket failure actually sounds more like my issue than the chain. It is a well-known weakness in these engines. Edward, my gut feeling is you've nailed it. How long does it take to replace the head gasket on these? - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: john@wagoneers.com To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, "dbl" Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:38:21 +0000 If you hear noise from the front of that engine, at the very least check the oil pump chain. There is an inspection port on the passenger side. This has all the symptoms of a failing oil pump chain. Symptoms I regretfully ignored. If you have around 175k or so then I would stop using this until the chain is confirmed good. The om60x engines are what I'm talking about. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:07:31 To: Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... It would be worth checking, but it has been changed recently, and checked more recently. I used Delo 400 15w-40. This drop is not noticeable while driving perhaps I should have been more clear. I am very aware of the look of low oil while driving. When the engine is at speed, the oil gauge is always pegged, as it should be. This is not a typical drop; just a tick in the gauge barely noticeable at idle, like one of the internal components is briefly leaking oil, then holding again. - ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Edward Pomeroy To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" Cc: diesel-benz@digest.net Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:00:21 -0400 Just a dumb question, but what is the oil level? If very low you can get this symptom while driving. Was it changed recently and what kind of oil was put in there? Edward On 9/9/2012 6:41 PM, jasonbassett@juno.com wrote: > The oil pressure drop is not that significant. It MIGHT be .1 bar at idle, but > probably more like .05 bar. It's not really all that big, but its presence > worries me. I doubt that the oil pressure has any direct connection to the > stumble, but I think it might be being infleunced by the same thing. > > CAN lifters blow out? Would even a completely removed lifter cause an > intervallic oil pressure drop? Does the oil hit them sequentially or > simultaneously? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , "dbl" > > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:34:50 +0000 > > Loss of oil pressure, some have a safety cutoff switch, no pressure no run. > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: "jasonbassett@juno.com" > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:28:47 > To: > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > > Why would that cause the engine to stumble? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: "jasonbassett@juno.com" , > owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, "dbl" > Subject: Re: [db] Uh-oh...... > Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:25:01 +0000 > > Oil pump chain or the oil pump. The chain broke on my om602 and that was the > end of my 91 300D. > > Have to take the front cover off, replace timing chain while you're in there. > > I failed to react to that ticking sound because it wasn't always there... > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: jasonbassett@juno.com > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > To: dbl > Subject: [db] Uh-oh...... > Sent: Sep 9, 2012 14:49 > > I have had a tick in my engine (1987 300SDL) for some time. It used to come > and go, then it stopped going, and just got quieter and louder. It is getting > quite loud, and today I noticed something that is.....slightly terrifying. > > My oil pressure drops slightly at that tick, which is now very sharp and > accompanied by a stumble in the engine, and then comes right back, only to > drop again the next time around. The pressure gauge is literally ticking > along > with the noise. I had assumed that it was a collapsed lifter, and that the > stumble was resulting from a valve which was not opening properly, but now I > wonder. Can a dead lifter cause the oil pressure to drop? I would imagine > that > it could blow out, and lose all ability to hold oil and lift, and hence when > the oil came to it, it would bleed off, and the pressure would drop. > > If that's not possible, I fear my engine is in deep trouble................. > > Jason > > ____________________________________________________________ > Woman is 53 But Looks 25 > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/504d0f1c698cef1c7bf1st04vuc > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:51:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D if you can get someone to spray it across the air inlet WHILE cranking you'll be ok... but don't let them squirt it into the opening, it can pool up in there and cause the engine to preignite and run backwards... or worse, damage something by having an explosion at the wrong time and bend/brake something... A Diesel will run backwards... so if the ether gets into the cylinder before TDC it can push the piston back down and make it run... backwards... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 10 Sep 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: # In my opinion, do not use starting fluid on a Mercedes engine; they tend to lock up. At least that has been my experience. If you do use it, have someone spinning the engine while you spray it into the intake. # # I would put the block heater on to heat the coolant, and put a radiant heater of some sort under the engine overnight. # # Thomas E. Potter # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On Behalf Of jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com # Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 4:39 PM # To: Renaud (Ron) Olgiati; diesel-benz@digest.net # Subject: Re: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D # # Id rather just use some starter fluid than risk burning up something that will cost more money to replace. Or futz around with the relay to get one last start and yank it if you bridge the connection at the relay. # # # -----Original Message----- # >From: "Renaud (Ron) Olgiati" # >Sent: Sep 7, 2012 4:35 PM # >To: diesel-benz@digest.net # >Subject: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D # > # >Seems the preheat relay has given up the ghost. # > # >Is it safe to jump-heat using a direct wire for 15-20 seconds from # >battery to the exit side of the pre-heat fuse ? # > # >(Just so I can move it around, and take it to the workshop ! ) # > # >Cheers, # > # >Ron. # >-- # > Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good. # > # > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D then all you need to start it is a dehumidifier so you don't hydrolock it... ;) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTM: TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 10 Sep 2012, Potter, Tom E wrote: # Preheat, smeheat; what is preheat. # # You could just bring it to Houston. It is hot enough here that you don't need # the preheat. :) # # Thomas E. Potter # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] On # Behalf Of Renaud (Ron) Olgiati # Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 3:35 PM # To: diesel-benz@digest.net # Subject: [db] Emergency starting on W123 300D # # Seems the preheat relay has given up the ghost. # # Is it safe to jump-heat using a direct wire for 15-20 seconds from battery to # the exit side of the pre-heat fuse ? # # (Just so I can move it around, and take it to the workshop ! ) # # Cheers, # # Ron. # -- # Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good. # # -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3660 **********************************