From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Thu Nov 29 15:21:27 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:21:07 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3694 diesel-benz-digest Thursday, November 29 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3694 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 11:33:28 -0800 From: Bruce Caruthers Subject: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak One of the service reps probably wasn't born yet. Their new guy (Scott) is pretty young. Spoke with the service guy (Garret, since John Sherril retired): Parts: heater, gasket/ring, hoses Labor: 1 hr diagnostic, 1.5 hrs (book) for job itself I decided to go with ordering parts (and should get my discount, making it probably comparable to online, especially combined with the convenience) and then hopefully having John mentor me through doing it myself. I figure I need to learn to work with that stuff in order to do the motor swap on the SL anyway! And, if we determine we only need some of the parts, I can always return the unnecessary stuff. Thanks for all the brainstorming to help me on this! - -bkc Lynnwood, WA (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acquired 11Jun76) (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired 21Apr12) (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired 25May12, diesel engine swap planned from wrecked W124 OM602) (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled 28Mar12) On Wed Nov 28, 2012, John Meister wrote: > I'm not convinced the dealer is equipped to deal with your vehicles... > > When I brought even my '91 into them they were not aware of a lot of > details... not saying they aren't competent or anything like that, but > 1987 was a LONG time ago for a dealership... it's possible that some of the > mechanics weren't even BORN then... :) > > The parts guys are great... usually a major help. > > that o-ring is a common failure item... doesn't like wvo or biodiesel... or > life in general... :) > > john > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: > > # I didn't get a chance to call and get further details today (workday got away from me). But the service rep has generally been very reasonable and not the type to overhype the repair needs. That said, I haven't seen the actual tech's writeup, just heard the initial summary over the phone. And this service rep isn't as hands-on mechanical as the one who just retired was (who was the one I mostly went to), so he might not understand the nuances. > # > # Hopefully will get a chance to call tomorrow and get more details. > # > # Thanks for all the feedback, though. I gives me hope I won't just be throwing more good money after bad (whether or not I do it myself or have them do it). > # > # -bkc > # Lynnwood, WA > # > # > # On Wed Nov 28, 2012, Steve Morelen wrote: > # > > # > Agreed. When I wrote last night I interpreted the original email to say that > # > the heat exchanger itself is leaking. It seems unlikely that the exchanger is > # > leaking....it is just a piece of metal as far as I know. Much more likely > # > that the o-ring in the valve is leaking as you described. The o-ring in my 87 > # > 300D leaked/was replaced about 3 years ago. If it is the o-ring and the > # > dealer wants to charge $750 instead of replacing a 30 cent o-ring (shouldn't > # > take more than an hour), someone should be put in jail. :-) > # > //steve > # > > # > > From: FParker24@verizon.net > # > > To: diesel-benz@digest.net > # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak > # > > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:15:41 -0500 > # > > > # > > Good point Steve. A assumed it was the valve (which is the most common > # > > leak point). If it's the actual heater, that's different. Although I > # > > would probably just jump it and be done... > # > > > # > > Fred > # > > > # > > -----Original Message----- > # > > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] > # > > On Behalf Of Steve Morelen > # > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:07 PM > # > > To: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com; diesel-benz@digest.net > # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak > # > > > # > > > # > > Where is the fuel leak: in the fuel preheater [heat exchanger assy] or > # > > is it in the thermostatic valve that routes the incoming fuel to/through > # > > the preheater? If it is in the valve, it is really simple to fix as > # > > Fred mentioned in his email. //steve > # > > > # > > > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:51:42 -0800 > # > > > From: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com > # > > > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net > # > > > Subject: [db] '87 300D fuel leak > # > > > > # > > > So, dealership diagnosed the sudden mpg drop as a significant leak in > # > > > the > # > > fuel preheater. Quoted cost to repair is $750 ($373 in parts, rest in > # > > labor). Granted, that should come down in the end with my pricing but, > # > > given the other issues, I am not sure I want to spend that much on it. > # > > > > # > > > Any thoughts on how hard it is to fix that on my own, or ways to jury > # > > > rig it > # > > for now? > # > > > > # > > > Might be time to just dump the '87 at whatever I can get for it... > # > > > Still > # > > runs strong, handles great, and has wonderful brakes. So, all the > # > > safety and basic driving stuff is fine. Just the fuel leak, mounts, > # > > vaccum pods, and lots of small, amenities stuff are bad. > # > > > > # > > > The '99 we looked at a while back seems to still be available ($400 > # > > > cheaper > # > > now at $6995), and there's a '95 on Craigslist now: > # > > http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3436524903.html (and the color > # > > looks decent, although a little drab from the pictures). > # > > > > # > > > The '99 seems like a great car other than color. The '95 would keep > # > > > us in > # > > the W124 family which I know best and have the manuals and such for. In > # > > theory, the '99 should get better mileage, but I'm not sure how much > # > > that matters for the miles we drive in a year. > # > > > > # > > > (And the '91 SL's engine wiring finally gave up and expired. So it is > # > > > # > > > down > # > > until the engine swap happens. Need to arrange to have it be towed back > # > > home from the dealership.) > # > > > > # > > > Thoughts? Advice? > # > > > > # > > > -bkc > # > > > Lynnwood, WA > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:51:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak Bruce, Good to hear you decided to roll up your sleeves and DIY. I try to do as much as I can. Some jobs just really require a lift and specialty tools that get farmed out. There is a real satisfaction in learning how things are put together, finding out what is wrong and fixing yourself. Not that Im wishing it on you, but its always easier the second time around. John - -----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Caruthers >Sent: Nov 29, 2012 2:33 PM >To: john >Cc: "diesel-benz@digest.net" >Subject: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak > >One of the service reps probably wasn't born yet. Their new guy (Scott) is pretty young. > >Spoke with the service guy (Garret, since John Sherril retired): > >Parts: heater, gasket/ring, hoses >Labor: 1 hr diagnostic, 1.5 hrs (book) for job itself > >I decided to go with ordering parts (and should get my discount, making it probably comparable to online, especially combined with the convenience) and then hopefully having John mentor me through doing it myself. I figure I need to learn to work with that stuff in order to do the motor swap on the SL anyway! > >And, if we determine we only need some of the parts, I can always return the unnecessary stuff. > >Thanks for all the brainstorming to help me on this! > >-bkc >Lynnwood, WA >(his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acquired 11Jun76) >(hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) >(ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired 21Apr12) >(ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired 25May12, > diesel engine swap planned from wrecked W124 OM602) >(RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled 28Mar12) > >On Wed Nov 28, 2012, John Meister wrote: >> I'm not convinced the dealer is equipped to deal with your vehicles... >> >> When I brought even my '91 into them they were not aware of a lot of >> details... not saying they aren't competent or anything like that, but >> 1987 was a LONG time ago for a dealership... it's possible that some of the >> mechanics weren't even BORN then... :) >> >> The parts guys are great... usually a major help. >> >> that o-ring is a common failure item... doesn't like wvo or biodiesel... or >> life in general... :) >> >> john >> >> >> On Wed, 28 Nov 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: >> >> # I didn't get a chance to call and get further details today (workday got away from me). But the service rep has generally been very reasonable and not the type to overhype the repair needs. That said, I haven't seen the actual tech's writeup, just heard the initial summary over the phone. And this service rep isn't as hands-on mechanical as the one who just retired was (who was the one I mostly went to), so he might not understand the nuances. >> # >> # Hopefully will get a chance to call tomorrow and get more details. >> # >> # Thanks for all the feedback, though. I gives me hope I won't just be throwing more good money after bad (whether or not I do it myself or have them do it). >> # >> # -bkc >> # Lynnwood, WA >> # >> # >> # On Wed Nov 28, 2012, Steve Morelen wrote: >> # > >> # > Agreed. When I wrote last night I interpreted the original email to say that >> # > the heat exchanger itself is leaking. It seems unlikely that the exchanger is >> # > leaking....it is just a piece of metal as far as I know. Much more likely >> # > that the o-ring in the valve is leaking as you described. The o-ring in my 87 >> # > 300D leaked/was replaced about 3 years ago. If it is the o-ring and the >> # > dealer wants to charge $750 instead of replacing a 30 cent o-ring (shouldn't >> # > take more than an hour), someone should be put in jail. :-) >> # > //steve >> # > >> # > > From: FParker24@verizon.net >> # > > To: diesel-benz@digest.net >> # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >> # > > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:15:41 -0500 >> # > > >> # > > Good point Steve. A assumed it was the valve (which is the most common >> # > > leak point). If it's the actual heater, that's different. Although I >> # > > would probably just jump it and be done... >> # > > >> # > > Fred >> # > > >> # > > -----Original Message----- >> # > > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] >> # > > On Behalf Of Steve Morelen >> # > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:07 PM >> # > > To: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com; diesel-benz@digest.net >> # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >> # > > >> # > > >> # > > Where is the fuel leak: in the fuel preheater [heat exchanger assy] or >> # > > is it in the thermostatic valve that routes the incoming fuel to/through >> # > > the preheater? If it is in the valve, it is really simple to fix as >> # > > Fred mentioned in his email. //steve >> # > > >> # > > > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:51:42 -0800 >> # > > > From: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com >> # > > > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net >> # > > > Subject: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >> # > > > >> # > > > So, dealership diagnosed the sudden mpg drop as a significant leak in >> # > > > the >> # > > fuel preheater. Quoted cost to repair is $750 ($373 in parts, rest in >> # > > labor). Granted, that should come down in the end with my pricing but, >> # > > given the other issues, I am not sure I want to spend that much on it. >> # > > > >> # > > > Any thoughts on how hard it is to fix that on my own, or ways to jury >> # > > > rig it >> # > > for now? >> # > > > >> # > > > Might be time to just dump the '87 at whatever I can get for it... >> # > > > Still >> # > > runs strong, handles great, and has wonderful brakes. So, all the >> # > > safety and basic driving stuff is fine. Just the fuel leak, mounts, >> # > > vaccum pods, and lots of small, amenities stuff are bad. >> # > > > >> # > > > The '99 we looked at a while back seems to still be available ($400 >> # > > > cheaper >> # > > now at $6995), and there's a '95 on Craigslist now: >> # > > http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3436524903.html (and the color >> # > > looks decent, although a little drab from the pictures). >> # > > > >> # > > > The '99 seems like a great car other than color. The '95 would keep >> # > > > us in >> # > > the W124 family which I know best and have the manuals and such for. In >> # > > theory, the '99 should get better mileage, but I'm not sure how much >> # > > that matters for the miles we drive in a year. >> # > > > >> # > > > (And the '91 SL's engine wiring finally gave up and expired. So it is >> # > > >> # > > > down >> # > > until the engine swap happens. Need to arrange to have it be towed back >> # > > home from the dealership.) >> # > > > >> # > > > Thoughts? Advice? >> # > > > >> # > > > -bkc >> # > > > Lynnwood, WA >> # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:20:08 -0500 From: Edward Pomeroy Subject: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak Ummm, and it is even easier the 5th, 6th and 7th time around :-) The heat exchanger thingie leaks because the o ring fails. After buying a new one and installing it, I figured I could have fixed the old one for about 50 cents with a new o ring. Edward On 11/29/2012 3:51 PM, jjs3rd@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Bruce, > > Good to hear you decided to roll up your sleeves and DIY. I try to do as much as I can. Some jobs just really require a lift and specialty tools that get farmed out. There is a real satisfaction in learning how things are put together, finding out what is wrong and fixing yourself. Not that Im wishing it on you, but its always easier the second time around. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruce Caruthers >> Sent: Nov 29, 2012 2:33 PM >> To: john >> Cc: "diesel-benz@digest.net" >> Subject: Re: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >> >> One of the service reps probably wasn't born yet. Their new guy (Scott) is pretty young. >> >> Spoke with the service guy (Garret, since John Sherril retired): >> >> Parts: heater, gasket/ring, hoses >> Labor: 1 hr diagnostic, 1.5 hrs (book) for job itself >> >> I decided to go with ordering parts (and should get my discount, making it probably comparable to online, especially combined with the convenience) and then hopefully having John mentor me through doing it myself. I figure I need to learn to work with that stuff in order to do the motor swap on the SL anyway! >> >> And, if we determine we only need some of the parts, I can always return the unnecessary stuff. >> >> Thanks for all the brainstorming to help me on this! >> >> -bkc >> Lynnwood, WA >> (his) '76 MB 240D [W115.117/616.916] (acquired 11Jun76) >> (hers) '92 Toyota Celica GT (long overdue to be retired or sold) >> (ours) '87 MB 300D Turbo [W124.133/603.960] (acquired 21Apr12) >> (ours) '91 MB 300SL-24 [R129.061/M104.981] (acquired 25May12, >> diesel engine swap planned from wrecked W124 OM602) >> (RIP) '93 MB 300D 2.5 Turbo [W124.128/602.962] (totaled 28Mar12) >> >> On Wed Nov 28, 2012, John Meister wrote: >>> I'm not convinced the dealer is equipped to deal with your vehicles... >>> >>> When I brought even my '91 into them they were not aware of a lot of >>> details... not saying they aren't competent or anything like that, but >>> 1987 was a LONG time ago for a dealership... it's possible that some of the >>> mechanics weren't even BORN then... :) >>> >>> The parts guys are great... usually a major help. >>> >>> that o-ring is a common failure item... doesn't like wvo or biodiesel... or >>> life in general... :) >>> >>> john >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2012, Bruce Caruthers wrote: >>> >>> # I didn't get a chance to call and get further details today (workday got away from me). But the service rep has generally been very reasonable and not the type to overhype the repair needs. That said, I haven't seen the actual tech's writeup, just heard the initial summary over the phone. And this service rep isn't as hands-on mechanical as the one who just retired was (who was the one I mostly went to), so he might not understand the nuances. >>> # >>> # Hopefully will get a chance to call tomorrow and get more details. >>> # >>> # Thanks for all the feedback, though. I gives me hope I won't just be throwing more good money after bad (whether or not I do it myself or have them do it). >>> # >>> # -bkc >>> # Lynnwood, WA >>> # >>> # >>> # On Wed Nov 28, 2012, Steve Morelen wrote: >>> # > >>> # > Agreed. When I wrote last night I interpreted the original email to say that >>> # > the heat exchanger itself is leaking. It seems unlikely that the exchanger is >>> # > leaking....it is just a piece of metal as far as I know. Much more likely >>> # > that the o-ring in the valve is leaking as you described. The o-ring in my 87 >>> # > 300D leaked/was replaced about 3 years ago. If it is the o-ring and the >>> # > dealer wants to charge $750 instead of replacing a 30 cent o-ring (shouldn't >>> # > take more than an hour), someone should be put in jail. :-) >>> # > //steve >>> # > >>> # > > From: FParker24@verizon.net >>> # > > To: diesel-benz@digest.net >>> # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >>> # > > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 22:15:41 -0500 >>> # > > >>> # > > Good point Steve. A assumed it was the valve (which is the most common >>> # > > leak point). If it's the actual heater, that's different. Although I >>> # > > would probably just jump it and be done... >>> # > > >>> # > > Fred >>> # > > >>> # > > -----Original Message----- >>> # > > From: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net [mailto:owner-diesel-benz@digest.net] >>> # > > On Behalf Of Steve Morelen >>> # > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:07 PM >>> # > > To: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com; diesel-benz@digest.net >>> # > > Subject: RE: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >>> # > > >>> # > > >>> # > > Where is the fuel leak: in the fuel preheater [heat exchanger assy] or >>> # > > is it in the thermostatic valve that routes the incoming fuel to/through >>> # > > the preheater? If it is in the valve, it is really simple to fix as >>> # > > Fred mentioned in his email. //steve >>> # > > >>> # > > > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:51:42 -0800 >>> # > > > From: bkc-benzlist2@dreamfire.com >>> # > > > To: diesel-benz@Digest.net >>> # > > > Subject: [db] '87 300D fuel leak >>> # > > > >>> # > > > So, dealership diagnosed the sudden mpg drop as a significant leak in >>> # > > > the >>> # > > fuel preheater. Quoted cost to repair is $750 ($373 in parts, rest in >>> # > > labor). Granted, that should come down in the end with my pricing but, >>> # > > given the other issues, I am not sure I want to spend that much on it. >>> # > > > >>> # > > > Any thoughts on how hard it is to fix that on my own, or ways to jury >>> # > > > rig it >>> # > > for now? >>> # > > > >>> # > > > Might be time to just dump the '87 at whatever I can get for it... >>> # > > > Still >>> # > > runs strong, handles great, and has wonderful brakes. So, all the >>> # > > safety and basic driving stuff is fine. Just the fuel leak, mounts, >>> # > > vaccum pods, and lots of small, amenities stuff are bad. >>> # > > > >>> # > > > The '99 we looked at a while back seems to still be available ($400 >>> # > > > cheaper >>> # > > now at $6995), and there's a '95 on Craigslist now: >>> # > > http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3436524903.html (and the color >>> # > > looks decent, although a little drab from the pictures). >>> # > > > >>> # > > > The '99 seems like a great car other than color. The '95 would keep >>> # > > > us in >>> # > > the W124 family which I know best and have the manuals and such for. In >>> # > > theory, the '99 should get better mileage, but I'm not sure how much >>> # > > that matters for the miles we drive in a year. >>> # > > > >>> # > > > (And the '91 SL's engine wiring finally gave up and expired. So it is >>> # > > >>> # > > > down >>> # > > until the engine swap happens. Need to arrange to have it be towed back >>> # > > home from the dealership.) >>> # > > > >>> # > > > Thoughts? Advice? >>> # > > > >>> # > > > -bkc >>> # > > > Lynnwood, WA >>> # ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3694 **********************************