From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Mon Dec 17 20:44:34 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 04:40:59 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3707 diesel-benz-digest Tuesday, December 18 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3707 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: [db] tdi vs benz [db] Re: [VW-TDI] Re: 2009 Jetta TDI sedan - New Tires on front or Rear wheels? [db] TDI vs. Benz [db] OT - mileage update... and other news... Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] tdi vs benz if I paid 60-70-80 grand for a new benz I would not expect to deal with bugs either... when you pay 6-7-8 grand for a used benz you don't mind so much. :) what I'm dealing with on these older vehicles is wiring issues, worn parts, or simply bad designs that require intervention. - ---------------------------------------------------------- so far the votes are evenly distributed... :) tough choice... both are good vehicles... the Jetta Wagon is more economical, more practical, less flashy, parts are MORE EXPENSIVE for many things than the Mercedes... yes... MORE... VW OEM parts are NOT cheap. Of course I'm buying at jobber pricing because I've got a business license... not sure on retail... of course the w210 parts that fail are EXPENSIVE... the 123 and 124 series Mercedes are quite affordable, much more so than even my MKIV jetta. My son needed an alternator adjustment nut for his 85 300d... retails for about 12bucks, we're getting it for about 6. the same kind of thing on my jetta would easily be 25-40 bucks... just a plastic windshield washer squirter at my cost was 25, retail over 40... maybe I should get another 124... . anyway, the wisdom of the list is what I'm seeking and getting... maintaining the status quo appears to be the best course of action despite the 01M automatic transmission, the rubber band and its bearings and the injectors... who knows what issues lie in wait under the bonnet of that beautiful benz... :) not even the dealer knows... and since the benz will only get about the same mileage as my Jeep Liberty CRD it's not going to win my bookkeeper's heart either... the Jetta allows her to spend more on other things... ;) like garden stuff... anyway, the technical review exercise is interesting and might help others in a similar quandry... I may build a spreadsheet/web page comparing different models... much of my "indecision" is based on wanting to have a solid trouble free ride... I anticipate failures that might never happen... if I have doubts about something I just am not happy... that's why I don't like rubber bands... I know that in X miles I have to spend money... with a timing chain or gear set that's not the case... having an automatic transmission that is weak and expensive, even after a good rebuild, makes me nervous... it shouldn't... I generally don't break stuff even when I'm driving it hard... the jetta really needs nothing right now... no CEL, starts/runs and gets 30.5 mpg IN TOWN with a heavy foot and hills... the wagon with an AT is rated at 29mpg according to the specs I'm finding... my sedan with at got 34mpg... but I think it was rated closer to that too... so maybe I don't really have an issue with my jetta... the pulley/bearing noise is only when cold... so if I do nothing, nothing bad will likely happen... so staying with what I have does make sense... but man, that benz is beautiful... and comfortable... and quiet... and thirstier than my jetta.... :) - ---------------------------------------------------------- more details for comparison - ---------------------------------------------------------- on the '98-99 Benz (the w210, E 300 Turbodiesel (I-6, 2.996 cmB3 3.0L, 130 kW/177 PS/175 h) the issues are well known, non-disabling and somewhat easy to circument. for instance... lug nuts, plastic fittings on the engine fuel system, the stock radio, the rear window mechanisms, some of the electrical stuff for the egr and accessories, and the headlight lenses. I think that's a good summary... someone jump in if I'm missing anything on the Diesels... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W210 the wiki lists 8 reliability issues... most are gas engine related, or body corrosion issues... a few suspension issues... engine specs are interesting: 3.0 24V TD I6 177 PS (130 kW; 175 hp) 330 NB7m (243 lbB7ft)OM606.962 0 to 60 in 8.4 - 7.6 the things that are ROCK SOLID on the Benz are the engine and transmission... - ----------------------------------------------------- on the ALH/99-04 VW MKIV TDIs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Jetta#Fourth_generation_.28A4.2C_Typ_ 1J.29 interesting that they don't even have a "reliability" section... and my "estate" was built in Germany. I can't find the trunk space for the '98-99 E300... but I know that I can get more cubies of WVO in the back of my Jetta wagon with the back seat up than I can in the Jeep Liberty! john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 16 Dec 2012, Michel Balea wrote: # some people do not have the energy or time to deal with bugs. # M # # On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 8:04 PM, john wrote: # > buying a new benz is beyond my comprehension, paygrade and hopes. ;) # > # > I like to buy the affordable ones that someone else worked all the bugs out of. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 20:49:27 +0000 From: "john" Subject: [db] Re: [VW-TDI] Re: 2009 Jetta TDI sedan - New Tires on front or Rear wheels? Re; the "new" tires on the rear of the rolled benz. I don't know. He's a Diesel instructor at a local votech, owned a shop up in alaska and had several mercedes before. He had some interesting Diesel driving techniques for mileage and is an experience ice and snow driver. The benz had a rebuilt suspension and handled well with the older tires, and yes I have had that car crossed up more than once on wet roads on purpose, it behaved well. So the unknowns are the "new" rear tires, the oil slicked ramp - first rain in 90 days and the driver. In his defense he did miss the state trooper and the trooper's car and did exit the road backwards. He rolled it after leaving the road and down the embankment. The car was very controllable in oversteer and I followed the guy home and rode back to my house with him driving. We went down that off_ramp together before, him in a little japanese 4x4, old rav4 or ???? He made that ramp in a high centered short wheel base rig at or above the normal speedlimit, the ramp was yellow signed at 40. He went through faster so I could have one last bit of fun with my benz, which I did with a grin. :). I took that ramp at 60+ with no problem in the car. Same ramp where he spun out at 40 with "new" tires on the rear on slick. I don't know what those tires were, if I talk to him again I'll find out. Still a mystery. That 87 300d had the nicest paint I've ever seen on any of the 129 vehicles I've owned. Not a piece of sheet metal was left untouched. But it protected him and his wife. So, bottom line, we don't know Shawn. All I know is that I'll put newer tires on the front myself if a shop won't. I also suspect the oil slicked ramp from the first rain in 3 months was the real culprit and the car allowed the driver to miss the trooper and his car that was dealing with a previous accident on the side of the road. What's even sadder is the guy didn't have full coverage. Feel bad for him. I think he may use the engine and interior in another one. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: Shawn Upton Sender: VW-TDI@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 10:19:03 To: VW-TDI@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: VW-TDI@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [VW-TDI] Re: 2009 Jetta TDI sedan - New Tires on front or Rear wheels? Driver mistake a "new to me" car could not possibly have been a factor... Shawn Upton ________________________________ From: john To: Tdi Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [VW-TDI] Re: 2009 Jetta TDI sedan - New Tires on front or Rear wheels? I just remembered, the guy that bought my 87 300d rolled it twice. He lost it on the ramp from I405 to I90 after the first rain this fall... He said he had put NEW tires on the REAR and that's what caused him to spin out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 22:44:57 -0500 From: "Wiard Pless" Subject: [db] TDI vs. Benz John, not much help here but what comes to mind is this: Car to be good for how many years and miles? Why buy a car with 245000 miles - 400.000 km? If you should buy the Benz have compression of the engine checked as well. Had a ride in such a Benz and Jetta is no comparison. Wiard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:40:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: [db] OT - mileage update... and other news... just a quick note... tanked up the jetta... 32.7 mpg - looking at the specs, my AT wagon is only rated at 29mpg in town! none of my Diesel Benz would break 30 mpg in town... and the kj crd... 21.5 mpg... after the eco-tune... happy with the mileage... better than rated as well. anyone have a wk with a crd? the kj is doing better than the cj-10a did... so I'm pretty happy. in the middle of an axle swap on my j10, going from 2.72 gears to 3.31's, hope to improve that mileage as well. in other news, there was a reason only two people were killed in Oregon: http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1943/Clackamas-Mall-Shooter-Was-Confonted-By-Concealed-.html john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3707 **********************************