From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Wed Dec 19 09:06:41 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:01:35 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3708 diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, December 19 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3708 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] OT - mileage update... and other news... Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:30:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] OT - mileage update... and other news... my manual tdi wagon was like that... always around 40mpg... my '91 300D was doing close well before it died... about 30... but it never did that great on the open road, oh yeah, one time 39.75... bruce is a hypermiler type... he always gets better mileage than I do... or uses a different form of math... ;) but that's ok... I'm happy with 30 in town, especially with the new Bosio Nozzles... love the extra power... john a better link on the citizen who stopped a massacre: http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571. html ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 Dec 2012, Jim Hoffman wrote: # I have NEVER averaged less than 40mpg's in my Jetta even in the city. Mostly 42-48. Have gotten over 50 once. Was hiding behind an 18 wheeler all the way up north. ;) Jim - --- On Mon, 12/17/12, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: [db] OT - mileage update... and other news... > To: > Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 10:40 PM > just a quick note... > > tanked up the jetta... 32.7 mpg - looking at the > specs, my AT wagon is only rated at 29mpg in town! > none of my Diesel Benz would break 30 mpg > in town... > and the kj crd... 21.5 mpg... after the eco-tune... happy > with the mileage... better than rated as well. > anyone have a wk with a crd? the kj is doing better > than the cj-10a did... so I'm pretty happy. > in the middle of an axle swap on my j10, going from 2.72 > gears to 3.31's, hope to improve that mileage as well. > > in other news, there was a reason only two people were > killed in Oregon: > http://easybakegunclub.com/news/1943/Clackamas-Mall-Shooter-Was-Confonted-By- Concealed-.html > > john > > > > ----- > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- > Linux: the choice of a > GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where > Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a > college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President > (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 16:21:24 +0000 From: "john" Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Thank you. This is the info I was looking for. If I have time I think I will make a page on my server with this info, no reason to put any of your info there, unless you want fame without fortune... :) A jetta is a lot easier to deal with. And I don't worry about parking lot dings (so much) and it's not as pretentious. Although that 99 E300 sure is pretty and rides very nice. John ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: "sensunique@juno.com" Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:08:54 To: ; Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too John, Sorry for my slow reply... You were curious about issues with this car (98 E300), so looking back at service records - on my E300 '98, some things that stand out. A lot more standard maintenance not included below. So on this car - watch out for glow plug replacement (potential damage to head), window regulators, corrosion, fuel leaks, HVAC issues in general, head lamp lens R&R, most talk about wiring harness (haven't had that issue), stock radio will have issues, remember to check spring perches for corrosion, also electrical gremlins - be sure to hold 12 volts on the system when replacing battery to avoid a couple of weeks of error messages that eventually clear. I will start first with mileage - then the issue: Note that car was pretty well behaved up to 100 kmiles. Just had odd electrical stuff to trace out, but not too much investment in that. 116kmiles - one bad glow plug, removed manifold, replaced all - no problem doing it that time. 129kmiles - replace l eft/rear window regulator, was on road $400+ at dealer 148kmiles - ball joint, sway bar link, mass air meter 156kmiles - fuel leak - injection pump shut off valve leaking. replace valve and stem, all fuel tubes at shut off valve 153kmiles - loose steering column, tightened 172kmiles - no start - remove intake manifold to check - ended up as cracked filter housing and inlet tube. Replaced main and pre fuel filter and injector transfer hoses 182kmiles - replaced all glow plugs - three carbon seized, traced threads best as possible 201kmiles - ball joints 219kmiles - outer tie rods 232kmiles - replace failing cat convertor 235kmiles - clean and restore headlamp lens 240 kmiles - ball joints, engine supports, trans supports 242kmiles - front wheel bearings, front rotors 243kmiles - fuel leak - remove intake manifold, reseal outlet elements, replace fuel feed lines, replace injector transfer hose 248 kmiles - alternator, rear muffler 270kmiles - R&R lower control arm bushings, left/rear window regulator, clean and restore headlamps, replace xenon lamps, could not get off wheels (all four) - wheel lugs were over-torqued in past --- many were drilled out - lots of labor, no cracked wheels though 295kmiles - replace evaporator coil --- deep in the dash - a lot of labor - it was leaking. Replaced AC compressor, aux fans. Expensive 300kmiles - change glow plugs, OMG - several seized when removing. They are long metal, thin, like a pencil, due to dual overhead cams. Had to take head off to get them out and was nervous about damaging the head - no damage though - gave a good chance to clean everything. I plan to change these every 60 kmiles now - hoping to catch before all the carbon build up, and installed as "loosely" as possible with lots of thread lubrication. Taking the head off to change a bad glow plug, ouch! 300kmiles - fuel leak - the return fuel hose that is a stopper popped off (leaking a lot of fuel). Went to the "newer" part return fuel hoses - supposedly there was a change of part number by mercedes here because of a problem. Long story short - owned the W124 below and driven 360,000 miles of its 490 kmiles. I will guesstimate and predict that the W124 in my experience is probably roughly 1/2 the cost to service/maintain. Can't really say it has any defects or issues - just normal wear items. My transmission lasted 475 kmiles before first rebuild (started not going into reverse well) and on original engine. Driven the E300 for 55 kmiles, most of the above is the original owners service records. We both maintain our cars very well, including suspension. Enjoy the ride and performance of the E300 - definitely a more fun car, BUT my opinion, not as trouble free as the W124. Brian AlcornSmith Mountain Lake'98 E300 - 305 kmiles'91 300D - 490 kmiles ____________________________________________________________ OVERSTOCK iPads: $33.93 Get New Apple iPads for $33.93! Limit One Per Customer. Get One Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d1a07046f4e20700bc8st04duc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too And don't forget.... The Jetta has the dreaded "rubber band". I'm not so sure why you're so worried about that. If replaced when recommended (or 150k later in my case) they don't seem to fail. Don't know of anyone who lost an engine because of the belt breaking. I'm not saying it doesn't happen... "I" just don't know anyone who's had it happen to them... ;) Jim - --- On Wed, 12/19/12, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too > To: "sensunique@juno.com" , "dbl" > Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 10:21 AM > Thank you. This is the info I > was looking for. > If I have time I think I will make a page on my server with > this info, no reason to put any of your info there, unless > you want fame without fortune... :) > > A jetta is a lot easier to deal with. And I don't worry > about parking lot dings (so much) and it's not as > pretentious. > > Although that 99 E300 sure is pretty and rides very > nice. > > John > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word > summary: Trust > Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: "sensunique@juno.com" > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:08:54 > To: ; > > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, > read this too > > John, Sorry for my slow reply... You were curious about > issues with this car (98 E300), so looking back at service > records - on my E300 '98, some things that stand out. > A lot more standard maintenance not included below. So > on this car - watch out for glow plug replacement (potential > damage to head), window regulators, corrosion, fuel leaks, > HVAC issues in general, head lamp lens R&R, most talk > about wiring harness (haven't had that issue), stock radio > will have issues, remember to check spring perches for > corrosion, also electrical gremlins - be sure to hold 12 > volts on the system when replacing battery to avoid a couple > of weeks of error messages that eventually clear. I will > start first with mileage - then the issue: Note that > car was pretty well behaved up to 100 kmiles. Just had > odd electrical stuff to trace out, but not too much > investment in that. 116kmiles - one bad > glow plug, removed manifold, replaced all - no problem doing > it that time. 129kmiles - replace left/rear window > regulator, was on road $400+ at dealer 148kmiles - ball > joint, sway bar link, mass air meter 156kmiles - fuel leak - > injection pump shut off valve leaking. replace valve > and stem, all fuel tubes at shut off valve 153kmiles - - loose > steering column, tightened 172kmiles - no start - remove > intake manifold to check - ended up as cracked filter > housing and inlet tube. Replaced main and pre fuel > filter and injector transfer hoses 182kmiles - replaced all > glow plugs - three carbon seized, traced threads best as > possible 201kmiles - ball joints 219kmiles - outer tie rods > 232kmiles - replace failing cat convertor 235kmiles - clean > and restore headlamp lens 240 kmiles - ball joints, engine > supports, trans supports 242kmiles - front wheel bearings, > front rotors 243kmiles - fuel leak - remove intake manifold, > reseal outlet elements, replace fuel feed lines, replace > injector transfer hose 248 kmiles - alternator, rear muffler > 270kmiles - R&R lower control arm bushings, left/rear > window regulator, clean and restore headlamps, replace xenon > lamps, could not get off wheels (all four) - wheel lugs were > over-torqued in past --- many were drilled out - lots of > labor, no cracked wheels though 295kmiles - replace > evaporator coil --- deep in the dash - a lot of labor - it > was leaking. Replaced AC compressor, aux fans. > Expensive 300kmiles - change glow plugs, OMG - several > seized when removing. They are long metal, thin, like > a pencil, due to dual overhead cams. Had to take head > off to get them out and was nervous about damaging the head > - no damage though - gave a good chance to clean everything. > I plan to change these every 60 kmiles now - hoping to catch > before all the carbon build up, and installed as "loosely" > as possible with lots of thread lubrication. Taking > the head off to change a bad glow plug, ouch! 300kmiles - - > fuel leak - the return fuel hose that is a stopper popped > off (leaking a lot of fuel). Went to the "newer" part > return fuel hoses - supposedly there was a change of part > number by mercedes here because of a problem. Long story > short - owned the W124 below and driven 360,000 miles of its > 490 kmiles. I will guesstimate and predict that > the W124 in my experience is probably roughly 1/2 the cost > to service/maintain. Can't really say it has any > defects or issues - just normal wear items. My > transmission lasted 475 kmiles before first rebuild (started > not going into reverse well) and on original engine. > Driven the E300 for 55 kmiles, most of the above is the > original owners service records. We both maintain our > cars very well, including suspension. Enjoy the ride and > performance of the E300 - definitely a more fun car, BUT my > opinion, not as trouble free as the > W124. Brian AlcornSmith Mountain Lake'98 > E300 - 305 kmiles'91 300D - 490 kmiles > > ____________________________________________________________ > OVERSTOCK iPads: $33.93 > Get New Apple iPads for $33.93! Limit One Per Customer. Get > One Now! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d1a07046f4e20700bc8st04duc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:00:36 +0000 From: "john" Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too It's the cost. Tools are about 300, parts about 500. If you have someone do it you're looking at 1-1.5k. Which is about what one electrical issue on a w210 costs... :). So you're right, I need to overcome my fear of the rubber band. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hoffman Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:49:34 To: dbl Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too And don't forget.... The Jetta has the dreaded "rubber band". I'm not so sure why you're so worried about that. If replaced when recommended (or 150k later in my case) they don't seem to fail. Don't know of anyone who lost an engine because of the belt breaking. I'm not saying it doesn't happen... "I" just don't know anyone who's had it happen to them... ;) Jim - --- On Wed, 12/19/12, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too > To: "sensunique@juno.com" , "dbl" > Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 10:21 AM > Thank you. This is the info I > was looking for. > If I have time I think I will make a page on my server with > this info, no reason to put any of your info there, unless > you want fame without fortune... :) > > A jetta is a lot easier to deal with. And I don't worry > about parking lot dings (so much) and it's not as > pretentious. > > Although that 99 E300 sure is pretty and rides very > nice. > > John > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word > summary: Trust > Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: "sensunique@juno.com" > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:08:54 > To: ; > > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, > read this too > > John, Sorry for my slow reply... You were curious about > issues with this car (98 E300), so looking back at service > records - on my E300 '98, some things that stand out. > A lot more standard maintenance not included below. So > on this car - watch out for glow plug replacement (potential > damage to head), window regulators, corrosion, fuel leaks, > HVAC issues in general, head lamp lens R&R, most talk > about wiring harness (haven't had that issue), stock radio > will have issues, remember to check spring perches for > corrosion, also electrical gremlins - be sure to hold 12 > volts on the system when replacing battery to avoid a couple > of weeks of error messages that eventually clear. I will > start first with mileage - then the issue: Note that > car was pretty well behaved up to 100 kmiles. Just had > odd electrical stuff to trace out, but not too much > investment in that. 116kmiles - one bad > glow plug, removed manifold, replaced all - no problem doing > it that time. 129kmiles - replace left/rear window > regulator, was on road $400+ at dealer 148kmiles - ball > joint, sway bar link, mass air meter 156kmiles - fuel leak - > injection pump shut off valve leaking. replace valve > and stem, all fuel tubes at shut off valve 153kmiles - - loose > steering column, tightened 172kmiles - no start - remove > intake manifold to check - ended up as cracked filter > housing and inlet tube. Replaced main and pre fuel > filter and injector transfer hoses 182kmiles - replaced all > glow plugs - three carbon seized, traced threads best as > possible 201kmiles - ball joints 219kmiles - outer tie rods > 232kmiles - replace failing cat convertor 235kmiles - clean > and restore headlamp lens 240 kmiles - ball joints, engine > supports, trans supports 242kmiles - front wheel bearings, > front rotors 243kmiles - fuel leak - remove intake manifold, > reseal outlet elements, replace fuel feed lines, replace > injector transfer hose 248 kmiles - alternator, rear muffler > 270kmiles - R&R lower control arm bushings, left/rear > window regulator, clean and restore headlamps, replace xenon > lamps, could not get off wheels (all four) - wheel lugs were > over-torqued in past --- many were drilled out - lots of > labor, no cracked wheels though 295kmiles - replace > evaporator coil --- deep in the dash - a lot of labor - it > was leaking. Replaced AC compressor, aux fans. > Expensive 300kmiles - change glow plugs, OMG - several > seized when removing. They are long metal, thin, like > a pencil, due to dual overhead cams. Had to take head > off to get them out and was nervous about damaging the head > - no damage though - gave a good chance to clean everything. > I plan to change these every 60 kmiles now - hoping to catch > before all the carbon build up, and installed as "loosely" > as possible with lots of thread lubrication. Taking > the head off to change a bad glow plug, ouch! 300kmiles - - > fuel leak - the return fuel hose that is a stopper popped > off (leaking a lot of fuel). Went to the "newer" part > return fuel hoses - supposedly there was a change of part > number by mercedes here because of a problem. Long story > short - owned the W124 below and driven 360,000 miles of its > 490 kmiles. I will guesstimate and predict that > the W124 in my experience is probably roughly 1/2 the cost > to service/maintain. Can't really say it has any > defects or issues - just normal wear items. My > transmission lasted 475 kmiles before first rebuild (started > not going into reverse well) and on original engine. > Driven the E300 for 55 kmiles, most of the above is the > original owners service records. We both maintain our > cars very well, including suspension. Enjoy the ride and > performance of the E300 - definitely a more fun car, BUT my > opinion, not as trouble free as the > W124. Brian AlcornSmith Mountain Lake'98 > E300 - 305 kmiles'91 300D - 490 kmiles > > ____________________________________________________________ > OVERSTOCK iPads: $33.93 > Get New Apple iPads for $33.93! Limit One Per Customer. Get > One Now! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d1a07046f4e20700bc8st04duc ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3708 **********************************