From owner-diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Tue Dec 25 17:27:09 2012 From: diesel-benz-digest To: diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 01:26:57 +0000 Subject: diesel-benz-digest V1 #3710 diesel-benz-digest Wednesday, December 26 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3710 Forum for Discussion of Diesel Mercedes Benz Automobiles Derick Amburgey Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too [db] Merry Christmas Diesel Benz Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/diesel-benz/ Send submissions to diesel-benz-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to diesel-benz-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to stag-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 12:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Hoffman Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too For me, it's all about trust. I trust my independent. I've never had a problem with his work. He's ALWAYS busy, i.e. lots of other people are happy with his work as well and he's getting a ton of referrals. I've just had too many bad experiences at the dealerships. That being said, this particular dealer local to me seems to have a very good reputation. If the cost is $100 or more less than my independent I may take a chance and see how they are. Jim - --- On Wed, 12/19/12, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too > To: "Jim Hoffman" , owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, "dbl" > Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 2:29 PM > It is funny how that works. Good > info. Will check with the dealer. Have seen this with other > makes as well. We expect the dealer to be expensive. But > maybe they have all the tools and experience an independent > doesn't have. > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible > is worth more than a college education" > > - Theodore Roosevelt > > ######## two word > summary: Trust > Jesus ######## > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Hoffman > Sender: owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:04:58 > To: > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, > read this too > > I paid my independent mechanic $900+ to do the job because > I've > always heard > how expensive service is at the dealer. When I was > at the dealer for other > stuff I thought I'd just inquire and he > said it would be around $800. So I > could have actually saved $s > at the dealer. Next time I'll get another quote > from them first. > > Jim > > --- On Wed, 12/19/12, john > wrote: > > From: john > > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own > '98-'99 E300, read this too > > To: "Jim Hoffman" , > owner-diesel-benz@digest.net, > "dbl" > > Date: > Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 11:00 AM > > It's the cost. Tools are about 300, > > > parts about 500. If you have someone do it you're looking > at > > 1-1.5k. Which > is about what one electrical issue on a w210 > > costs... :). So you're right, > I need to overcome my > > fear of the rubber band. > > ######## john @ > wagoneers.com ######## > > "A thorough knowledge of > the Bible > > is > worth more than a college education" > > > > - - Theodore Roosevelt > > > > > ######## two word > > summary: Trust > > Jesus ######## > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: Jim Hoffman > > Sender: > owner-diesel-benz@digest.net > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:49:34 > > To: > dbl > > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own > '98-'99 E300, > > read this too > > > > And don't forget.... The Jetta has the > dreaded "rubber > > band". > > > > I'm not so > > sure why you're so worried about > that. If replaced > > when > > recommended (or 150k > > later in my case) they > don't seem to fail. Don't > > know of anyone who lost an > > engine because of > the belt breaking. I'm > > not saying it doesn't happen... "I" > > just don't > know anyone who's had > > it happen to them... ;) > > > > Jim > > > > --- On Wed, > > > 12/19/12, john > > wrote: > > > > > From: john > > > > Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own > '98-'99 > > > E300, read this too > > > To: > > "sensunique@juno.com" > > , > > > "dbl" > > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2012, 10:21 > AM > > > Thank you. This is the info I > > > was looking for. > > > If I have > time I think I will make a page on my server > > with > > > this info, no reason > to put any of your info there, > > unless > > > you want > > fame without > fortune... :) > > > > > > A jetta is a lot easier to deal with. And I > > don't > worry > > > about parking lot dings (so much) and it's not as > > > > > > pretentious. > > > > > > Although that 99 E300 sure is pretty and rides > very > > > > > > nice. > > > > > > John > > > ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## > > > > "A > > thorough knowledge of the Bible > > > is worth more than > a > > > college > > education" > > > > > > - Theodore > Roosevelt > > > > > > ######## > two word > > > > > summary: Trust > > > Jesus ######## > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > From: > > "sensunique@juno.com" > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 > > 11:08:54 > > > To: ; > > > > > > > Subject: > > Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own > '98-'99 E300, > > > read this too > > > > > > John, > > Sorry for my slow reply... > You were curious about > > > issues with this car (98 > > E300), so looking back > at service > > > records - on my E300 '98, some things that > > stand out. > > > A > lot more standard maintenance not included > > below. So > > > on > > this car - > watch out for glow plug replacement (potential > > > damage to head), > > window > regulators, corrosion, fuel leaks, > > > HVAC issues in general, head lamp > > > lens R&R, most talk > > > about wiring harness (haven't had that issue), > stock > > > radio > > > will have issues, remember to check spring perches > for > > > > corrosion, > > also electrical gremlins - be sure to hold 12 > > > volts on the > system when > > replacing battery to avoid a couple > > > of weeks of error > messages that > > eventually clear. I will > > > start first with mileage - then > the issue: Note > > that > > > car was pretty well behaved up to 100 kmiles. > > > Just had > > > odd > > electrical stuff to trace out, but not too much > > > > investment in > > that. 116kmiles - one bad > > > glow plug, removed manifold, > replaced all - no > > problem doing > > > it that time. 129kmiles - replace > left/rear > > window > > > > > regulator, was on road $400+ at dealer 148kmiles - > ball > > > joint, sway bar > > link, mass air meter 156kmiles - fuel leak - > > > > injection pump shut off valve > > leaking. replace valve > > > and stem, all fuel > tubes at shut off valve 153kmiles > > - loose > > > steering column, tightened > 172kmiles - no start - - > > remove > > > intake > > manifold to check - ended up as > cracked filter > > > housing and inlet tube. > > Replaced main and pre fuel > > > > filter and injector transfer hoses 182kmiles - > > replaced all > > > glow plugs - > three carbon seized, traced threads best > > as > > > > > possible 201kmiles - ball > joints 219kmiles - outer tie rods > > > 232kmiles - > > replace failing cat > convertor 235kmiles - clean > > > and restore headlamp lens > > 240 kmiles - ball > joints, engine > > > supports, trans supports 242kmiles - front > > wheel > bearings, > > > front rotors 243kmiles - fuel leak - remove > intake > > manifold, > > > > reseal outlet elements, replace fuel feed lines, > > replace > > > injector > transfer > > hose 248 kmiles - alternator, rear muffler > > > 270kmiles - R&R > lower control arm > > bushings, left/rear > > > window regulator, clean and > restore headlamps, replace > > xenon > > > lamps, could not get off wheels (all > four) - wheel lugs > > were > > > > > over-torqued in past --- many were drilled out > - lots of > > > labor, no cracked > > wheels though 295kmiles - replace > > > > evaporator coil --- deep in the dash - a > > lot of labor - it > > > was leaking. > Replaced AC compressor, aux fans. > > > > > Expensive 300kmiles - change glow > plugs, OMG - several > > > seized when > > removing. They are long metal, thin, > like > > > a pencil, due to dual overhead > > cams. Had to take head > > > off to > get them out and was nervous about damaging > > the head > > > - no damage though > - gave a good chance to clean > > everything. > > > I > > plan to change these every > 60 kmiles now - hoping to catch > > > before all the > > carbon build up, and > installed as "loosely" > > > as possible with lots of thread > > lubrication. > Taking > > > the head off to change a bad glow plug, ouch! > > 300kmiles > > - > > > > fuel leak - the return fuel hose that is a stopper > > popped > > > off (leaking a > > lot of fuel). Went to the "newer" part > > > return fuel hoses - supposedly > there > > was a change of part > > > number by mercedes here because of a problem. > Long > > story > > > short - owned the W124 below and driven 360,000 > miles > > of > its > > > 490 > > kmiles. I will guesstimate and predict > that > > > the W124 in my > experience is > > probably roughly 1/2 the cost > > > to service/maintain. Can't > really say it has > > any > > > defects or issues - just normal wear items. > My > > > > transmission lasted > > 475 kmiles before first rebuild (started > > > not going > into reverse well) and on > > original engine. > > > Driven the E300 for 55 > kmiles, most of the above is > > the > > > > > original owners service records. We > both maintain our > > > cars very well, > > including suspension. Enjoy the ride > and > > > performance of the E300 - > > definitely a more fun car, BUT my > > > > opinion, not as trouble free as the > > > > > W124. Brian AlcornSmith Mountain > Lake'98 > > > E300 - 305 kmiles'91 300D - 490 > > kmiles > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > OVERSTOCK > > > iPads: $33.93 > > > Get New Apple iPads for $33.93! Limit One Per > Customer. > > > Get > > > > > One Now! > > > > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d1a07046f4e20700bc8st04duc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 17:58:04 -0500 From: Michael Frank Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too My experience with the E320 gas wagon was about the same. Surprising rust problems, especially around the door moldings and liftgate window, although no special rust problem with the spring perches. Electrical problems...oh my. Crappy radio, hidden antenna never quite right, no reception at all on AM. Headlight lenses needed regular polishing or replacement. Not Diesel relevant, but the catalytic converters were a big problem. Not designed for easy service. Front suspension issues. Multiple sensor problems: mass/air, crank sensor, and so on. AC system was just dead weight. But at the end, it gave it's life to save my wife. Mike Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 16:37:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] tdi vs benz - if you own '98-'99 E300, read this too will build a page to document these issues... Mike, your input was most valuable to me in avoiding a costly decision. I'm sure the car would have been fine and worked well, but with some expensive fixes that would have been ongoing... the issues aren't terribly severe in the Diesel realm, but significant enough to avoid the W210 model. I've seen these issues in almost every w210 I've looked at... realistically if I didn't have the jetta tdi wagon I'd probably have a w210 though, because they really do drive nicely... it's a crying shame they had these issues... :( Hopefully the info we share on this list has helped folks out... I know that was the intent when I started the FSJ list long before I ran into Richard Welty and he graciously offered to host it, and to create this and the XJ lists. :) a BIG THANK YOU to Richard Welty for years of reliable list service! You've made a lot of friends... friends among friends... thanx! I'm sure there's a lot of gearheads worldwide that appreciate what you've done! Have a Merry Christmas Richard, and everyone else as well... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 19 Dec 2012, Michael Frank wrote: # My experience with the E320 gas wagon was about the same. Surprising rust # problems, especially around the door moldings and liftgate window, although # no special rust problem with the spring perches. Electrical problems...oh my. # Crappy radio, hidden antenna never quite right, no reception at all on AM. # Headlight lenses needed regular polishing or replacement. Not Diesel # relevant, but the catalytic converters were a big problem. Not designed for # easy service. Front suspension issues. Multiple sensor problems: mass/air, # crank sensor, and so on. AC system was just dead weight. But at the end, it # gave it's life to save my wife. # # Mike Frank # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 19:26:07 -0600 From: Alec Cordova Subject: [db] Merry Christmas I'm not what anyone would call a practicing Christian of any persuasion (Yes, I consider myself to be an Atheist. Deal with it.), but I have no problem wishing everybody a Merry Christmas! The Christian Christmas, meaning by definition the celebration of Jesus Christ, is still the primary reason that this is a Holiday Season in the United States. Whether or not one believes the claims made about him, it's easy to believe and support the majority of his positions on how we should behave as members of a civilization. As a supporter of tolerance and acceptance, I'm glad that Judeo-Christian value systems, along with some Roman influence, are some of the primary reference systems for our Western society. And while I'm not thrilled with how my particular holiday has turned out, I have to admit that it's been a pretty good year for me, so I'll take comfort in that and wish everyone a Merry Christmas! May you build happy memories with the ones you love. Warmest Regards, Alec Cordova Taylor, Texas 13 Scion FR-S, 8K ------------------------------ End of diesel-benz-digest V1 #3710 **********************************